Being pro-choice, or being pro woman's right to choose, is being pro abortion. Period.

Vic Biorseth, Monday, April 13, 2009
http://www.Thinking-Catholic-Strategic-Center.com

It is the day after the Easter Rising, and this is a terrible topic to talk about after such a glorious celebration. However, tomorrow I go back on the road; time is limited and there is much to say. Sometimes I feel as though there is never enough time to say it all.

What this page addresses is the tendency toward falsehood that manifests itself in those who call themselves, not pro-abortion, but rather, pro-choice, or pro woman’s right to choose. Some of them may not even properly discern their true pro-abortion position because the lie is so smooth. But many of them know full well what the nature of the flagrant lie is, for they designed the lie and intended it to be what it is. There is one and only one “choice” involved here, and no other. It involves the right to choose to kill someone, pure and simple.

Legalized willful abortion is the sole, exclusive aim of the pro-choice or pro woman’s right to choose argument. Pretending otherwise is exactly that: a public pretension and a flagrant categorical lie. A murderous lie. There is absolutely no other “choice” involved in the discussion other than willful legal abortion. If you are pro-choice, then you are pro-abortion.

Say it.

Pro-choice champions cannot or will not recognize or even look at what they champion. Nor do they want you to recognize or even look at what they champion, and sponsor, and defend, and stand for. That is why our SLIMC1 religiously and fiercely censors all pictures of it in public. It is crucial to the so-called pro-choice position that the public not know what they are really talking about, and not ever see the disgusting, revolting and bloody reality of it.

You will see broadcast pictures of brain surgery, open-heart surgery, live births, C-section births, and on, and on. But you will never see an abortion or the product of an abortion because the SLIMC1 owns the broadcast and the print media, and they are absolutely pro-abortion, and therefore will not show you the reality of what they stand for and champion.

You will see broadcast pictures of combat, involving lots of dead soldiers. You will see holocaust films of the Nazi death camps, with all the horrors and piles of bodies and atrocities involved. But you will never see a single abortion picture because the SLIMC1 owns the entire mainstream media and they have denied you access to the graphic truth of what they love and sponsor.

The pro-choice, pro woman’s right to choose position cannot stand to look at what they sponsor. Nor can it stand for you and I to even look at it. The pictures are too horrible, they say. Holocaust, yes; abortion, no.

They simply can’t stand the sight of it.

Therefore, they rigidly censor it.

Their argument begins with the completely bogus Human Population Problem hoax that our so-called intelligentsia created and carefully maintains. It then moves on to the HBAACOTE11 bogus teaching, with concocted “evidences” as elaborated in the Eco-Nazi Movement page, demonizing man while elevating all that is non-man.

Their argument is false. Let’s actually look at the graphic reality of it.

We will refer to the pro-life pictures as "The Direct, Open, Honest Anti-Abortion Championship” or Choice 1 pictures.

We will refer to the pro-death pictures as the "pro-choice" and "pro-woman's-right-to-choose" championship or Choice 2 pictures.



The Direct, Open, Honest Anti-Abortion Championship



The the "pro-choice" and "pro-woman's-right-to-choose" championship.


Choice (Abortion) represents a plank in the Democrat Party platform; it's what they stand for, and what they are about. It's what they sponsor, champion and defend, to the death. Willful and completely unnecessary abortion is now committed millions of times per year in America, thanks entirely to the political efforts of Democrat Party, and the Supreme Court which they own, and whose membership they tightly control, on behalf of a completely unregulated multi-billion dollar abortion industry that pays them.

As you can clearly see in the Abortion In America page, The Court and the Democrats (with the aid of some Republicans) were able to bring this bloody abomination into legal being, maintain it, and exponentially grow it, in spite of overwhelming public opposition to it, and legislated, representative law specifically against it.

The American voter may be damned; representative government in America may be damned. The legislative process may be damned. The “checks and balances” between the three so-called co-equal branches of American government may be damned.

The Leftist Elite Class knows best.

So, just shut up and get on the cattle car. You have nothing whatsoever to say about any of it.

This issue highlights the successful encroachment of Leftist unrepresentative governmental power in America, and the steady, inexorable migration of power, from the people, to the government. If you think I'm exaggerating, then you haven't read the Abortion In America page yet.



The Direct, Open, Honest Anti-Abortion Championship


The the "pro-choice" and "pro-woman's-right-to-choose" championship.

Choice (Abortion) is defended and championed by former fetus Neal Boortz on his "conservative" radio talk show. But, as is always the case when basic immorality must be publicly defended, he uses weasel words rather than direct language.

He is not pro-abortion, he will have you know. He is pro-choice.

See?

Take a good, long, hard look at the difference.


The Direct, Open, Honest Anti-Abortion Championship


The the "pro-choice" and "pro-woman's-right-to-choose" championship.


Choice (Abortion) is also promoted by former little gob of tissue, Al “Cap’n Planet” Gore. The Gores, like the Kerry’s, were pro-life before they were pro-death.

But then, Algore became aware of the needs of our precious planet, which he was able to discern, through his Prophetic Ability, was doomed, doomed, by our runaway Human Population Problem, which threatens so many other forms of life that are so much more precious than ours.

See?


The Direct, Open, Honest Anti-Abortion Championship


The the "pro-choice" and "pro-woman's-right-to-choose" championship.


Choice (Abortion) is the unanimous choice of the Pelosi’s and the Reids and so many other ranking Democrats who intend to openly block any nominee for any court who might in any way support, or even smile at Choice 1. God forbid.

Why, what would become of this country if we had to “go back” to the bad old days of coat-hangers and back-alley abortions, back when abortion was, number one, exceedingly rare, and number two, hidden from public view in shame, in the illegal gutter, whence it was born.

See?

It would be better, in their view, to bring it out of the gutter and mainstream it, and make it an important, integral part of our whole culture, just like the ongoing normalization of homosexuality.

Get with the times, man.


The Direct, Open, Honest Anti-Abortion Championship


The the "pro-choice" and "pro-woman's-right-to-choose" championship.


Choice (Abortion) is the automatic, unhesitating, knee-jerk response of the Obama’s, the Biden’s, the Clinton’s and the Kennedy’s. Take a look at it.

Choice (Abortion) has also occasionally been the choice of McCain, depending on what day it was, which way the political wind was blowing, and who the audience was. Now, he seems most often to make Choice 1; but, of course, that’s today. We don’t really know what his moral basis is; but past pronouncements give us a pretty good clue as to what it is not.

Supporters of Choice (Abortion) will rail on about how they intend to work hard to “keep it rare, and keep it safe.” This means, of course, that millions of medically unnecessary abortions per year is rare.

See?

It also means that they actually think it’s a safe procedure; meaning safe for the anti-mother, of course. Which is false. We know that the actual numbers of severely injured and even fatally injured women in abortion mills is religiously censored by the pro-abortion SLIMC1 , because if the public knew the truth about it, it might have a detrimental effect on the purposeful positive spin being applied to Choice 2. The entire news media is involved in this cover up.

In a similar manner, the entire news media is involved in the religious censorship of any public display or broadcast or transmission of any Choice (Abortion) pictures like the ones on this page. Again, you will see, in print and on TV, pictures of all sorts of surgery, including C-section births, brain surgery, etc. You will see Holocaust films of piles of dead bodies and the horrific “work” of Nazism. But you will never - never - see any news-print or TV-broadcast image of the reality of Choice 2.

Sometimes women go home from an abortion mill, take a sedative, and then bleed to death in their sleep.

Part of the reason so many women bleed to death, or very nearly so, before they even get home is that when an abortionist punctures her uterus, or bowel, or whatever, and realizes it, they never call an ambulance for her to get her into a real health care facility. The reason is that, particularly when there might be any pro-life people outside praying, it doesn’t look good to have patients taken away from their abortion mill in an ambulance, with the lights and the sirens going. So, they smuggle her out to the parking lot and into a private car to take her to the nearest hospital, as quietly as possible. And they do this after taking all precautions and hoping to not get too much blood on the upholstery in the process. Some abortion mill staff members now keep plastic sheets or garbage bags handy in the back seat area of their private cars for this purpose.

This is a fairly regular event. The actual numbers are a closely censored secret of the pro-abortion SLIMC1 .

Here is a pertinent news item:

3-October-2008 -- Catholic News Agency

Bishop: Proposed Freedom of Choice Act Would Increase Abortions

Kansas City, Oct 2, 2008 (CNA).- Bishop Robert Finn of Kansas City-St. Joseph in Missouri, writing in his diocesan newspaper, has discussed the proposed Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA), which he said would overturn all existing federal regulations on abortion. Claiming the passage of the act would lead to an increase in abortions, he also questioned whether pro-life supporters of pro-choice politicians have their priorities “backwards.”

Writing in his latest column for The Catholic Key, Bishop Finn said “It is clear that FOCA would immediately make null and void every current restriction on abortion in all jurisdictions.”

Though Bishop Finn did not mention any presidential candidates by name, Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama has pledged to pass FOCA as his first act as president.

The legislation, which was first proposed in 1989, was reproduced in its current form by Bishop Finn in his October 1 column: .”

“A government may not (1) deny or interfere with a woman’s right to choose – (A) to bear a child; (B) to terminate a pregnancy prior to viability; or (C) to terminate a pregnancy after viability where termination is necessary to protect the life or health of the woman; or (2) discriminate against the exercise of the rights set forth in paragraph (1) in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information.”

According to Bishop Finn, the bill would overturn many state laws, such as abortion reporting requirements in all 50 states. It would additionally overturn states’ laws concerning parental involvement, restrictions on later-term abortions, conscience protection laws for individual health care providers, bans on partial-birth abortions, conscience protection laws for institutions, requirements for counseling before an abortion, and laws providing ultrasounds to distressed women before an abortion.

Bishop Finn said there is “very significant evidence” that the passage of parental involvement laws and ultrasound requirements help reduce the number of abortions, particularly among teenagers.

The bishop then turned to the group Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good, which in Bishop Finn’s description says “that electing candidates who have permissive or clearly pro-choice stances in support of abortion, but are determined to provide more assistance to poor and vulnerable women and families would actually help to reduce abortions in the United States.

He said he believes the group “has its priorities backwards.”

“It seems unlikely that candidates advocating full access to abortion – which attacks the most vulnerable poor, the unborn - will at the same time have a consistent or principle-based plan for helping other poor people,” the bishop remarked.

“When a candidate pledges to provide ‘comprehensive sex education’ to school children and promises to promote – or to ‘sign immediately upon taking office’ - the Freedom of Choice Act, Catholics and all people of good will have cause to question the sincerity of the candidate’s determination to reduce abortions, when these already existing limits have caused a decrease of more than 100,000 abortions each year."

Referring to a pastoral letter jointly authored with Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City in Kansas, Bishop Finn wrote:

“If we are inclined to vote for someone despite their pro-abortion stance, it seems we are morally obliged to establish a proportionate reason sufficient to justify the destruction of 45 million human persons through abortion. If we learn that our ‘candidate of choice’ further pledges – through an instrument such as FOCA - to eliminate all existing limitations against abortion, it is that much more doubtful whether voting for him or her can ever be morally justified under any circumstance."

We have got to end this abomination.

This is a blot on our national honor, a sin crying out to Heaven for vengeance and an absolute travesty to good justice.

We have got to throw these murderous bastards out of office.

How can they claim to represent us?

See the Abortion In America page for how we have already lost much of "Representative Government" through the goals of the government created, mandated, protected and unregulated multi-billion dollar abortion industry.

Pray prayers of atonement for America, and then take action.



=====

Reference Material

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Hover-Link Footnotes:  For the convenience of those readers using devices that lack a mouse, these footnotes are provided for all webpages, in case any webpage contains any hover-links.  (If you don't have a mouse, you can't "hover" over a link.)

SLIMC1 Secularist Liberal Intellectual Media Complex
GESGOEAEOT2 Gradually, Ever So Gradually, Over Eons And Eons Of Time
PEWAG3 Punctuated Equilibrium's Wild Assed Guess
TTRSTF4 Them There Real Scientifical Type Fellers
TTRSPTF5 Them There Real Smart Perfesser Type Fellers
TTRSJTF6 Them There Real Smart Journalistical Type Fellers
SNRTACBT7 Surely No Right Thinking Adult Could Believe Today
STNSEACPB8 Surely Today No Serious, Educated Adult Could Possibly Believe
WDN9 We Don't Know
BMDFP10 Baboons, Mongrel Dogs, Filthy Pigs
HBAACOTE11 Human Beings Are A Cancer On The Earth
ACLU12 Anti-Christian Litigation Union
FLORMPORIF13 Flagrant Liar, Or, Mindless Parrot, Or, Innocent Fool
MEJTML14 Marxist Ends-Justify-The-Means Liar
IEJTML15 Islamic Ends-Justify-The-Means Liar
MPAV16 Marxist Principles And Values
WBESSWG17 Wise, Benign, Elite, Super-Scientific World Governance
TRMITM18 The Reason Man's In This Mess

I avoid social media, having been burned by poor security in that arena.  You may contact me through comments at the bottom of any webpage on this website, including this one. I am the only one who sees, approves and publishes these comments, or not.  Regards, Vic

Webpage Comments and
Updates

(Each published webpage, change or comment automatically sends the webpage to the top of the Thinking Catholic Blog Roll by date and time.)


Date: Fri Aug 14 23:27:49 2009
From: Pin0Qyo
Email: are_leaf90@yahoo.com
Location: Klang, Selangor, Malaysia
Comment:

They should ask forgiveness from God. This should not be happening in this era. The development of medical technology should be [to] give benefit to us, not disaster. The babies also want to live, together with their parents. They want to live.!!!!


Date: Fri Aug 21 16:09:01 2009
From: ADRIANA (CURLY) MONTIEL
Email: MONIELADRIANA@YAHOO.COM
Location: WHITTIER CA UNITED STATES
Comment:

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I ACTUALLY TOOK THE TIME TO CHECK OUT AN ABORTION SITE AND AS SOON AS I SAW THE HORRENDOUS PICTURES I FELT THIS HOLLOWNESS IN MY STOMACH; I CAN’T IMAGINE HOW WOMEN CAN ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT GETTING AN ABORTION, IT IS THE [MOST] HEARTLESS THING THAT ANYONE CAN EVER DO AND IT SICKENS ME TO SEE HOW INHUMANE THESE WOMEN CAN BE!


Date: Tue Sep 29 21:27:07 2009
From: Jane
Email: ilovebrian04@yahoo.com
Location:
Comment:

I honestly believe in abortion. I am certified in Early childhood education and I love kids with all of my heart. I also know that if you are not ready, don't force yourself. I know the common argument is you give it up for adoption but I know that road and it’s hurtful. I would rather not put my child in a world that would ultimately hurt them. I try to protect kids and this is just my way. I'm sorry that most people won't support me but it is what I believe. I had an abortion because having a baby will KILL me. It sounds selfish but I also won’t bring a child into this world without a mom and dad.


Date: Wed Sep 30 18:02:46 2009
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Jane:

First, let me say that ”If you are not ready, don’t force yourself” is horrible advice for a decision regarding of life or death. A new baby cannot wait for a “ready” parent. It would be far better for one who is not ready to practice chastity until readiness arrives, whatever readiness means. In any case, once pregnancy occurs, it is time to get ready. Life comes at you, always, every day, and the requirements of life must be dealt with realistically. Ready or not.

Second, yes, it is true that adoption can be hurtful. But being hurt is better than being dead, from the baby’s point of view, and being hurt by giving up a child is better than being mortally wounded in soul and in psyche by having had your own baby killed. It is not natural to kill your own offspring. It radically opposes nature; it is the opposite of motherhood.

Third, when you say “having a baby will KILL me” I don’t know whether you are speaking literally or figuratively. If there was a potentially lethal problem with the pregnancy, here’s part of what I said about that in the Abortion in America page:

The Catholic position is to completely oppose abortion as the unwarranted taking of an innocent human life, which is to say, Biblical murder. But, what about when the mother’s life is jeopardized by the pregnancy? This was not, in fact, a problem before the court invalidated legal abortion prohibitions in every state. Doctors - the old fashioned kind, who took the Hippocratic Oath and lived by it - made life and death decisions on an as-needed basis, and no one in their right mind questioned these purely medical decisions.

There is an exceptionally rare (fortunately) form of pregnancy called an ectopic, or tubal, pregnancy, in which the baby does not move to the uterus, but attaches in one of the Fallopian tubes, and begins its exponential growth there. The results are catastrophic, for mother and child. If surgery to remove the baby is not performed in very short order, the mother will surely die, and, because the baby is still so very tiny, there is no possible way that it can survive delivery. In this case, if medical action is not taken, both mother and child face certain death; only the mother can be saved.

When this happened in the past, doctors did not double check civil law, nor did they call their attorneys, nor did they consult canon law or any cleric; they simply did what had to be done according to their oath, and they saved the mother. The first rule of medical practice is to do no harm; when that is not possible, then we expect them to always do the least harm necessary.

Generally, if surgery to save the mother's life does not, as a purpose of the surgery, directly kill the baby, it is not a sinful abortion. If the tube is removed with the baby in it, for instance, or in the case of cancer or other problem necessitating a hysterectomy, these are allowed by the Church. Only when the doctor purposely and specifically removes the baby alone - not the tube, or other organs that might contain the baby - with the purpose, not of saving the mother, but solely of killing the baby and terminating the pregnancy, is it recognized as an abortion - a Biblical murder - by the Church.

These kinds of pregnancy are exceedingly rare.

Finally, the notion of preferring to kill a child rather than have it grow up without a mother and/or a father – doesn’t that strike you as a bid odd? Death is preferable to orphanage? I have heard the same sort of thought process from victims of rape, in which, the sin of the biological father incurred a death sentence on the innocent child, who would never even get a chance at life, no matter how humble or impoverished or loveless that life might be. Might. Note well that none of us can predict what kind of life a new baby might be blessed or cursed with, whether born to wealth, squalor, abandonment or whatever. Even the Blessed Virgin did not understand and did not know the nature or the future of her little one.

Jane, I very strongly urge you to click on this link and get in contact with a local Project Rachel person to discuss your life, your past and your future. Maybe you have already begun to feel the repercussions of having had an abortion; whether you have or not, talk to someone at Project Rachel. They can help you more than you know; they can help you deal with and get through a very serious crisis that is almost certainly in your future. You need to confront it, and you need to be brought into the forgiveness of your baby, the forgiveness of yourself, and the infinite forgiveness, love and grace of our Lord. They can help you; talk to them.

We have already begun praying for you.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Wed Oct 07 14:24:10 2009
From: Jane
Email: ilovebrian04@yahoo.com
Location: FL
Comment:

Vic:

I understand your point of view. I decided a long time ago that I am practicing chastity. I did mean that having a baby will kill me. I have kidney failure and have had multiple cysts on my ovaries and in both of my bartholin glands. If you look into any of those you can see that it is extremely painful. My final thought is a baby inside of you can not think for themselves, that’s why we carry them and feed them and also provide for them. We as mothers have to make tough decisions and do what is right for our children. I can't buy food for myself, I can't put a roof over my own head and I can't pay my electric and I haven't found a job. I am supposed to be in college but I can't pay for it. How can I provide for a baby?


Date: Thu Oct 08 05:48:56 2009
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Jane:

We continue to pray for you.

If you are not yet a member of any Church or Synagogue we urge you to join one. Seek help, and do not be too proud to accept charity. Seek your first opportunities for change through God, His Word, and His servants. Put the words “pro life organizations Florida”, or similar words, in a Google search and see what comes up on your computer. There are always giving people involved in these organizations, including medical practitioners of various description who give freely of their time and talent. Women in crisis situations can find counseling; help with physical needs and referral to all sorts of support networks.

While perusing these various web sites, pay attention to employment opportunities. Perhaps you have a future in the pro-life effort in some capacity, however humble, and/or in motivation and inspiration of other women in need. You may be able to play a role in saving some babies, helping someone even worse off than yourself, and in redirecting some lives gone astray from The Way.

Know that you are not alone. With God, you are never alone.

We continue to pray for you, please pray for us. Seek the Truth; find the Way; live the Life; please God and live forever.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Thu Oct 15 07:56:59 2009
From: Lisa Hershey
Email: lisa_hershy@hotmail.com
Location: Stockton, CA. San Joaquin County
Comment:

Please...someone needs to stand up for non abortion. For those women out there, that has had abortion(s) before [they] should be killed and murdered by stranger. It hurts my heart to see those unborn babies that want to have lived. Some women just don't have the heart to love someone, but themselves. They are selfish and cold blooded, and will be punished till death; [the] devil will be on the side waiting for mothers that have no soul. This is all about the law and GOVERNMENT. They are responsible for every action that they've made. Whatever they do will come around. This is for the world to know that if the GOVERNMENT truly past out the law about not having an abortion to any of the rich or poor, all doctor wouldn't have the face to offer abortion to anyone. But they lied to many people out there that vote for non abortion. Don’t ever forget that every fetus that you killed, thousands of them, is part of you. They are human. They are suffering while you try to break them into tiny little pieces. Think how you feel if you were to be killed by a stranger and cut into pieces like how you do to a fetus. And for those doctors that do abortion procedures should die in a horrible death. Including mothers, fathers, especially the [government representatives] that allowed doctor to do. If you are going to church and never missed a day and still vote for abortion, what is the point of going to God while you are not clean from the inside out. Even if you die don't even think that God would take you. And those who don't care about religion and do abortion will also burn in hell. Church people need to clean their faces. How can you pray to God every day and night and even face God if you sin in your own soul. This goes to all races, white, black, Mexican, and Asian.


Date: Thu Oct 15 18:05:19 2009
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Lisa:

We know the feeling in your heart. We have not been blessed with little ones, and we can never – never – understand how anyone could knowingly just trash an innocent little baby. The answer is that many of them, and we can hope that means most of them, do not knowingly do such a terrible thing. They are the victims of a horrible lie. They have been desensitized to the humanity of the victim. Once a woman begins not thinking of it as human, it is no longer seen by her as a part of her, and it is no longer a part of the family, and it is no longer a part of the race, and it is no longer a part of the people, and it no longer has any rightful place in the world. It is just a thing; an inconvenience.

But it’s all a monstrous lie. It’s a baby.

But do pray for them, Lisa. The mercy of God is unlimited. No one is beyond redemption. Not the women; not the “doctors”; not even the judges, or the so-called “representative” government instigators are beyond the mercy of God. Our hope, and the hope for our national soul, lies with them all coming to see the absolute abomination at their own hands for what it truly is, and recoiling from it and turning away from it.

Each woman who turns from it is a step in the right direction. Each abortion industry worker who turns from it is 100 steps in the right direction. Each judge, justice or politician who turns from it is 10,000 steps in the right direction. Pray that they all might come to work, in atonement, for life; for the salvation of their own souls, and for the salvation of our national soul.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Sun Oct 18 23:51:29 2009
From: Kat
Email: krend@sc.rr.com
Location:
Comment:

Abortion is wrong. It is killing.

God provides us with his law, written for all to see. Problem is, no one bothers to read it! For every decision you must make in your life, first consult our Lord. Read the Bible. I guarantee you will NOT walk away with, "Abortion is okay."


Date: Sat Oct 24 20:45:59 2009
From: Jane
Email:
Location: Florida
Comment:

Church is not about abortion. You are twisting it into something that it isn’t. I have a health condition in which I can’t have kids. My best friend Jessica Struke just died from having a baby. She never even got to see her daughter. she had the same problems I did so should I die a horrible death???


Date: Sun Oct 25 05:56:21 2009
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Jane:

The Church is about many things, and one of the things “Church” is about is the Law of God. I am not twisting the Church into something it isn’t; you are rationalizing, compromising and negotiating the Church into a trivial side-line issue, at best, and just another take-it-or-leave-it element of the World at worst. What the Church consistently teaches is either of vital importance to man, or it is nothing.

Who told you that you cannot live without having sex? Where did you get the idea that the practice of chastity is impossible? From Freud? No one is forcing you to have sex. There is still a civil law against that, and it’s called rape.

Read the contraception page for what the Church has consistently said, down through the ages, about all forms of abortion, including contraception. Read the abortion page for a more in-depth description of the history of how our American law has been un-Constitutionally twisted into an evil monster at odds with God’s Law.

Far too many generations have grown up in error in this country. We think that, if it’s legal, it must be OK. It isn’t OK.

God hasn’t gone anywhere. The real Law does not change. Right and wrong do not change.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Sun Oct 25 06:34:09 2009
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Note to all:

Some of you may have an untold story, and perhaps a need to vent. If there is more that you would like to get off your chest and perhaps open a dialogue with others with an interest in your topic, visit the new Your Personal Webpage link and consider opening the discussion there. No cost; no commitment; no personal identification required. It’s a place to put down your thoughts and discuss them with others.

Note that this is not a Website; it is, rather a Webpage, within this Website. But it’s all yours, and it’s free, and you can be as public or as anonymous as you wish to be. And you can do multiples if you so choose; just give each Webpage a different title.

I can testify that writing can be therapeutic. The whole reason I have written all of the pages you see on this Website is wrapped up in the notion of writing as therapy. Sometimes there is just something that needs to be said, and so I say it here. Even on pages where no one responds, at least I got it off my chest. If any of you would like to go deeper into your hot topic than you have gone in this dialogue, try a little therapeutic writing at the Your Personal Webpage link.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Mon Nov 02 22:28:21 2009
From: Jane
Email:
Location: Florida
Comment:

I honestly believe that Lisa has no idea what it feels like to have to have an abortion. I defiantly didn't enjoy giving up a child but some people have to and unfortunately I was one. Giving up my twin daughters was one of the hardest decisions I have EVER had to make. I don't believe that women in my position should have to die a horrible death. Quite frankly, most women would choose to do the same thing I did. You may be an exception but you don't have a very realistic view on life.

People die, People make hard choices, and most of us do not enjoy it but that is life and how it works. You being upset will not change the fact that people do things that you don't like. I can appreciate your view on abortion but you have to be willing to listen to the other side. You don't know me and don't know my circumstances but you think I should die a horrible death. What would you do if you were me? Commit suicide so your child can suffer? That’s what it would be for me.

I know I will die if I try to have kids. Trust me I didn't try to get pregnant but accidents happen. I am married and practice safe sex, but that .1% happened. I was on the pill and using condoms every single time. If you can't understand any of that then you are very closed minded. I am not trying to convince anyone that abortion is right but I am trying to open your eyes to special circumstances in which people can't help.

Jane


Date: Tue Nov 03 06:01:43 2009
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Jane:

I’m sure you’re quite right; Lisa has no idea what an abortion feels like, neither do I, and neither does any unborn baby before the procedure begins.

You are the second “Jane” (unless you are the same one) to speak of a condition in which is it supposed to be medically pre-ordained and 100% certain, before you are even pregnant, that you will die if you try to carry a child to full term and delivery. I need to see some evidence of this; unless and until someone educates me further in the matter, I reject the notion and do not believe it to be a true medical condition. It may be a gross exaggeration of a true condition, or it may be a profitable abortionist’s selling point. I stand prepared to be corrected by any medical professional (I do not consider an abortionist to be a medical professional.)

Jane, there is no such thing as safe sex; never was; it’s a lie. I urge you to read the Artificial Contraception page; it’s a real eye opener for modern women. You are worthy of better treatment than this. Then, look at the Sexual Revolution page to see where the contraception lie got its biggest social boost in America. The fact that lots and lots of people bought into it does not make it “good.” It is an evil lie.

Take note of the fact that, in all of world history, there is not one single case of anyone getting sick or dieing from the practice of celibacy, including even life long celibacy. We have thousands of years of history of whole religious orders living celibate to draw upon. The statement stands true. If you think it is impossible for you, then you have been miss-educated, like the rest of us.

You are not a thing; you are not a mere sexual playground, or an object of pleasure. You are much more than that. You can control your own urges; millions that have gone before us have done it. If your condition is as you describe it, and your husband cannot practice the self control needed for a celibate life, then he is no man, and is unworthy of you because he doesn’t love you enough.

Passion can be funneled into prayer.

Turn to prayer, Jane. Turn your husband to prayer. Seek guidance from God. With God, all things are possible. Seek Him. You don’t have to look too hard.

He is standing right there in front of you.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Tue Nov 03 14:00:41 2009
From: Jane (the same one)
Email:
Location: Florida
Comment:

Vic

I chose to have sex. It is something most people do. My husband left that choice to me. I have polycystic kidney disease (PKD). I am in the late stage which means kidney failure is just around the corner. An unborn baby does not call out to me and say that it wants to live. The choice is mine and mine alone. I did what was best for my daughters and I strongly believe that. There is a 50% chance that my child would get PDK and I know what it feels like. I would never put my child through that. I believe that abortion should only be used in extreme cases, as in rape, inbreeding, and harsh medical conditions. For those women that are careless and don't use precautions in their lives, no, abortion is terrible.

Sincerely, Jane


Date: Tue Nov 03 19:17:30 2009
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Jane:

Justifying doing something just because “it is something most people do” is not the normal behavior of homo sapiens, but the normal behavior of follow-the-leader, go-along-with-the-crowd, unthinking herd animals.

And saying that “the choice is mine and mine alone” takes God and His will completely out of the discussion and renders His choice not only inferior to yours, but not even worthy of consideration.

None of the “extreme” cases you site are worthy of killing another innocent little one. Taking the 50% shot would be better than that. And moving away from sexual activity would be better still.

It wouldn’t kill you; and it wouldn’t kill anyone else.

We are praying that you will come to know that sex just isn’t worth it.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Tue Nov 03 20:36:11 2009
From: Jane
Email: ilovebrian04@yahoo.com
Location: Florida
Comment:

Vic,

Honestly I am not a very religious person due to events in my life. I consider all opinions and options and I still can't justify killing myself. Tell me how killing myself and leaving my child behind to who knows what is justified? I understand why you don't believe in abortion, I truly do, it is a terrible thing. The procedure is gross and unpleasant. I have yet to hear anyone say that they understand my side of this. You don't know how to react until you have been in my spot, in my life, and had to decide for your self and your child.

Sincerely,

Jane


Date: Wed Nov 04 05:11:54 2009
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Jane:

Many would like to commiserate and walk a mile in your shoes, empathize, sympathize and make you feel better about it. But there is an external set of life rules to consider, and the author of those rules. None of us walk this journey alone, and each of us has a unique cross to bear on the journey. Believe it or not, yours is not the biggest one.

Events in your life do not make you who you are. You make you who you are. Life is only as complex as we each make it. It could be and should be quite simple, even in the most seemingly complex situations.

You have proved the main contention of this Webpage, which is that there is in reality one and only one choice in the pro-choice argument, and that is the purely selfist choice of someone to abort someone else. That’s it. That’s all there is.

You do not have to kill yourself any more than you have to have sex, any more than you have to overeat, get drunk, get high or anything else. You have surrendered your immortal soul to this world, so embrace your own free will decision and the eternal consequences of that conscious, well thought out decision, and stop asking for understanding from others. Live with it, and enjoy it while you can, for whatever time you have left. To be true to yourself, do not play-act at religion in any way, and do not accuse any others of twisting the Word of God which you have knowingly rejected.

Once, long ago, God called heaven and earth to witness against man when He set before man life and death, blessing and curse, for him to choose. Then, God even told us how to choose, saying “Choose Life” (Deut. 30:19). You have chosen death.

We will pray that you will turn around, Jane. It is never too late, until you actually face final Judgment.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Sun Nov 15 15:32:33 2009
From: Abraham
Email:
Location:
Comment:

Amen.


Date: Sun Nov 15 16:44:29 2009
From: Lora
Email:
Location:
Comment:

To Jane:

Jesus saves.

Turn around, Jane.

Jesus loves you.


Date: Tue Nov 17 11:05:19 2009
From: Jane
Email:
Location: Florida
Comment:

Vic,

Hi. Jane again. I just wanted to say thank you for this website. I know you don't agree with me but you are being an adult about it. One of the people who has seen this page wrote me an e-mail and was extremely rude. I appreciate your kindness. Jane


Date: Wed Nov 18 19:06:14 2009
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Jane:

You mentioned earlier that you consider abortion “terrible” when done other than in cases of rape, incest, etc., and not in your case. Why is it “terrible” in those cases? Because of what it does to the little ones or because of the problems moms had dealing with the decision?

If it is truly terrible ever, then why isn’t it always terrible?

Also, you have asked more than once if others would prefer that you die than commit an abortion. Let me rhetorically change the premise a little bit for the sake of good argument. If your little one was one month old (or 1 year old, or 2 years old, etc.) and you were presented by circumstance with the choice of losing your life, or your child losing its life, which would you choose?

This is just food for thought, Jane. The questions are asked in love.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Thu Nov 19 12:08:17 2009
From: Jane
Email:
Location: Florida
Comment:

Vic,

I don't like abortion. It is always terrible. But sometimes those things have to happen for the sake of someone else. If I actually made it through my pregnancy things would change dramatically. Children are very important to me and would do my best taking care of that child. Until I know I can make it through one I don't see even getting pregnant an option. I need a kidney transplant...after that, I may be able to have them.

Jane


Date: Sat Feb 06 19:27:47 2010
From: Dunkhighlander
Email: dunknrach@yahoo.com
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Comment:

The natural or Moral law is evident in all hearts, not by their actions but by their reactions. Pro-Choice?? You made your choice when you decided to sleep with him. What a sad, sad day we live in? Thank you, Mr. Darwin, for your contribution to the moral deception of the US ... Hell is eternally grateful.


Date: Sun Feb 07 13:59:58 2010
From: FreedomOfChoice
Email: bluemorningbliss@aol.com
Location: Lakeland/FL/United States
Comment:

Regardless of your beliefs or these extreme depictions, women still should have the right to choose. If you don't want one ... don't get one. Get knocked up by a rapist and change your mind. You won't ever know until you are put in a situation where you have to make a decision. The important fact is that the constitution gives us the right to make that decision.


Date: Sun Feb 07 14:51:01 2010
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

FreedomOfChoice:

Horse patooties. If you want to get one, go back into the gutter where this abomination was born and get yourself one. Regardless of your beliefs, don’t try to impose your stupid and criminal choices on this nation by twisted, perverted and unrepresentative law. Out of all of her many, many abortions, how many times do you suppose Whoopie Goldberg was “knocked up” by a rapist?

The American Constitution gives us no such right. Go read it, and then come back here and tell me exactly where it says any such thing.

Go read the Abortion in America page if you want to see how an unconstitutional legal precedent was set, undoing legislated representative law all across the land. It remains for a future government to undo that damage, and, mark my words, it will be undone, and the right to legislate laws regarding such issues will be returned to the individual states where it belongs.

In the meantime, you keep telling yourself how choosing to abort someone is a good thing, and how all of the history of Western Civilization and all of Judao-Christian religion is wrong in condemning it.

You should drop the charade and admit that you just want to screw, and this is just another form of birth control for you.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Fri Mar 12 11:59:06 2010
From: hhhhhh.yahoo.com
Email: yahoo2@yahoo.com
Location: Los Angeles
Comment:

Abortion is the most horrible thing that humans do and this should not happen.


Date: Sun Mar 14 15:21:32 2010
From: Dawn
Email: Sublime1418@yahoo.com
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Comment:

I 200% agree with Jane. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't God support free will? I believe in pro-choice because not you or anyone else have any control whatsoever with what I do with my body. If it's not right for me to have a baby, or it jeopardizes my health in anyway, then I have the divine right to have an abortion, If I want to. It may not seem right to you, but if in my heart I know it's not right, I should be able to make that decision without criticism from anybody. I am a firm believer that if it does not effect you, then let it be.

There are many women out there, whether it's right or wrong, walking the streets selling their bodies for money, women that are raped and/or taken advantage of every single day, and as terrible as it is, there are women out there that are molested by their own family members. If ANY of these women end up pregnant, they should be able to have an abortion. If they keep these babies, or even bring them to full term and give them up for adoption, those mothers will forever remember the terrible day they were conceived, and will always harbor negative feelings and regret. These children will know the situation at one point or another, and may have feelings similar to the mother. It's not fair to bring a child into this world unless you know 100% that this child is what you wanted and you are able to give them everything they need and deserve, including your love.

And Lisa, HOW is it right in your mind for women who have gotten abortions to die terrible deaths?! That is the most sacrilegious thing I have ever heard, not to mention uneducated. If you believe in God (which by the way, I do not.), then you must know he would never want it that way. Everyone has the opportunity to be forgiven by God. It is not right in any way for you to be wishing death upon ANYONE. It's people like YOU that me happy I am not religious, because if God can have followers like you, then it's nothing I want to be included in. I think God would have a bigger problem accepting you then accepting someone who's had an abortion. You are the heartless and cold blooded person you yourself mentioned. I hope you realize what a terrible person you are, and change your ways real quick.

I think if a woman wants to have an abortion, it is completely her choice. It's going to happen, no matter what laws or regulations come into play. People are ALWAYS going to have sex, no matter what anybody is preaching to them, simply because it feels good. There are far too many people in this day and age for everybody to follow the same path. Things have changed quite a bit, just in the past 100 years. There are women out there who have had kids who do not deserve their children. I say if a women knows she is not fit to be a mother, by all means ABORT!


Date: Sun Mar 14 19:47:17 2010
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Dawn:

Thank you for so clearly illustrating here the vast difference between the Judao-Christian Ethos and the “morality” of the atheist. As one who holds nothing whatsoever to be sacred and denies even very the notion of sacredness itself, it seems a bit odd for you to even attempt to define sacrilege, let alone use it in any sort of coherent sentence. It is not exactly your area of expertise.

In your submission I find again that old familiar guiding ethos of BMDFP10 and the house of Obama. You should select the most gory and bloody picture of the product of abortion, frame it, and hang it in your dining room, right over the table. Since unlimited bloody abortion is such an all important plank in the Democrat Party’s political platform they should include the same picture in their stationary letter-head, put it on bill-boards and include it in all their political ads.

But then, I suppose highlighting what you love, promote, sponsor and champion would be honest, and therefore far beyond Marxocratic and atheistic possibilities. You would probably prefer to censor the image of what you love, and excuse it with lots and lots of phony sob stories.

We can pray that you might come to a turning point Dawn, but, bottom line, your free will choice will have it’s way, and it will determine your eternity. You are always free to choose. As a pro-choice advocate, I'm sure you will always be pro-choice so long as you are not the one being aborted.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Sat Apr 10 23:50:03 2010
From: Neeps
Email:
Location:
Comment:

It just looks so weird to see someone insulting a person in one sentence and then writing, "We Pray for you." in the next ..

"You are filth and I want you to hang a picture of a dead baby on your wall. God bless you, friend."

ProLife here, and have to say ... God's love needs better represented …

For those being insulted.. Only God can judge you. No mortal has the right. What we do in life definitely controls what happens next, but don't let people wearing the mask of religion frighten you away from God.

Only God can forgive you. We often are put into terrible places in life. That's just how it is. And I know that it's hard.

God is love.

In this world of murder and uncertainty we have to see religion for what it is.. Man made.

God is spirituality.

Murder is wrong.

What you do you must come to grips with while working with God. Don't allow a human being to scare you away from the Word.

Oftentimes in our eagerness to make our point we end up alienating them rather than showing them the light we share. We insult, put people down and outright let our rage control our words.

Whatever well constructed point one may have, they must remember that God is love.

Insulting people for not agreeing with you isn't what he intended when he sent you out to spread his Love …

No matter the atrocity, we are mortal. Only God has the right to judge. No man is given authority. And if he takes it when it is not his, you still do not have the right to sling insults, belittle him and make a farce of your faith.

God is love.


Date: Sun Apr 11 20:55:08 2010
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Neeps:

Sometimes Truth is taken to be an insult, most particularly when the hearer is directly opposed to Truth. If a denier of Truth is hit between the eyes by Truth and takes it as a personal insult rather than what it is, which is Truth, then, so be it. I am more of a front-line grunt than a diplomat.

In this particular case, the subject person (Dawn) is an admitted atheist and a denier of God and His law, who also claims a “Divine right” of a woman to kill a living child growing in the womb. It is my assumption (which could be wrong) that Dawn is an adult and has adult judgment, and possesses at least normal intellect and cognitive abilities. And yet she has not even seen the contradictory terms used in her own pro-abortion rant, which shows that she simply is not using the thinking power she was born with and should have been exercising all her life.

Now, I know from long experience that it is pointless, at least for me, to argue with a committed adult atheist about the differences between right and wrong, because they have convinced themselves of their purely worldly position and they are thus ruled by the world, which, of course, is ruled by Satan. If you are a better diplomat than me, feel free to take up the fight from that angle. From my point of view, which is that of the front-line grunt, the only thing that sometimes works in this situation is a good solid smack upside the head (figuratively speaking, of course.)

I simply speak the cold, hard Truth, shake the dust, and move on. I cannot (and would not) force any atheist to believe in God, and I’m not going to waste a lot of time arguing with a full grown adult fool, or with an invincibly ignorant person. Thus, while I am very sorry for Dawn, I am not sorry for a word I said to her.

Which brings me to your words.

You have mischaracterized my words, and indeed you have directly misquoted me. You have put words in my mouth that I never spoke and never wrote. When you knowingly misquote someone you tell a lie about them, and when you tell a lie you make of yourself a liar.

Beyond that, the parts of your remarks that appear to be directed at Dawn or at others like Dawn are preaching God to a woman who has flatly stated that she does not believe in God. Well, who knows? Maybe something will get through to her. Good luck in that effort.

You cannot save Dawn, and neither can I. Only Dawn can cooperate with the Grace she’s been given and come to Truth herself, with the help and advocacy of the Holy Spirit she does not believe exists.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Sun Apr 11 23:22:19 2010
From: Juhi
Email:
Location:
Comment:

Please I have question thank you. If Dawn is incompetent is there no redemption for the mental incompetent?


Date: Mon Apr 12 06:09:24 2010
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Juhi:

Yes, there is redemption for the incompetent; in fact they have a better shot at Heaven than the rest of us. Indeed our own redemption may sometimes hinge on how we treat the incompetent. However, there are degrees of incompetence, and a difference between incompetence and bad choices.

God gave man free will for a reason. Man is supposed to make choices. God respects man too much to interfere with man’s choices; we are each allowed to damn ourselves by our own free will, and God will allow us to do it. The world is not always a nice place, and we are supposed to discern the right path from the wrong path as best we can. Those who lack the competence to discern need help; but many if not most are not incompetent at all, but merely poorly raised, or misdirected by education, or led astray by others, and not making good use of their own competence.

Dawn believes in freedom of choice, and so does God. Completely. A complete lack of fear of God is the mark of a complete lack of wisdom, for fear of God is just the bare beginning point of wisdom. When one rejects God, hope is lost, until and unless that person has a radical change of heart and mind.

The Prodigal Son had to return to his father’s house completely on his own; there was nothing his father could do or would do to make him return, and there was nothing his good brother could do to keep him away.

Dawn will turn around, or she will not; there is nothing we can do about it.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Wed Apr 14 06:47:42 2010
From: Nathalie
Email: rhody.buggy@gmail.com
Location: Florida
Comment:

Personally, It's no ones damn business what a woman does to her body because in the end it's all her decision and SHE is the one with all the responsibility. It's not selfish, nor heartless, nor inhumane. We do a lot worse to animals as a whole. The chickens we eat, along with the cattle sure as hell were not nurtured or coddled before they were slaughtered.

I am pro whatever the hell you decide is best for you and your family in the long run. I have a child, whom I would kill for. My bf and I (not my daughter's father) have been together for quite some time now, ended up getting pregnant accidentally (we took the precautions). We are not living together at the moment and he is not employed, I can't support another mouth to feed and the baggage that comes with pregnancy and had a medication abortion on the 28th day. I do not regret it. I am not saddened by it, because I will have another one in a better situation, and I can sleep at night and am no monster. You (those of you who judge and are complete heretics) are not going to help me out in the long run and the state can only help so much when there's a dead beat dad in the picture (like my daughter's father).

It's MY vagina, MY choice. Get over it. It will be legalized in my life time and will be as ok and legal as the black man that lives on your block, or uses the same utensils you do at a restaurant, or drinks from the same fountain you do.

It amazes me how the rudest people, or trashiest and most egotistical people are those who parade themselves in the name or religion. You are all bigots.

You obviously have nothing better to do, why not protect the children that are already here, like put pedophiles to death, or cut off their nuts and HERE'S A GENIAL IDEA *light bulb* Improve our education and health care systems like Europe's, before parading around and bringing a poor innocent creature into this very F***** up society of ours!


Date: Wed Apr 14 17:55:28 2010
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Nathalie:

This has got to represent the most judgmental, rude, trashy and egotistical submission that I have ever allowed publication on this site, after cleaning up your F-bomb. We are rude? We are trashy? We are judgmental? Your filthy submission just barely did not get deleted outright.

It is indeed a decent society’s business what a woman does to someone else’s body, particularly when what she does to someone else’s body is lethal. Apparently you are not smart enough to figure out that more than one body is involved here; could it be that you are too self-centered and egotistical to be able to even consider the other?

So you and your latest shack-up “accidentally” got pregnant; how, exactly, do you do that? You say you took “precautions.” Does that mean practicing so called safe fornication, or some other sort of precautionary screwing?

You have a child you would kill for, and you have a child you have killed. And you don’t see any contradiction there. And you have no conscience. And it’s your vagina. And if you want to practice random copulation or just general sluttery, that’s nobody’s business but yours.

Agreed.

But, what does food have to do with it? And what do our black neighbors have to do with it? And what does killing or castrating pedophiles have to do with it?

Just as today’s homosexuals actually believe (or say they believe) that they are born that way, I suppose you just believe you were born to be a filthy whore, to raise up bastards, to occasionally kill infants, to despise your country, and to teach your surviving children to do the same.

I don’t know what to say to all of that. I think you’ve said it all. Rooting for Marxism and Obamunism in America really takes the cake.

Regards,

Vic

PS: Re the heretic remark: Exactly what religion from hell might we possibly be heretics from?


Date: Wed Feb 02 00:40:20 2011
From: Katerina
Email: yekaterinabezpalaya@gmail.com
Location: Florida
Comment:

Simply said: If I ain't lookin' in your vagina, I sure as heck would appreciate if you'd stop looking in mine. If I be the creator of life then it my power to oversee it and not just pretend to be a vessel for life. If it is the choice of a women to abort, then let it be. Her body, her womb, her strength, her unpreparedness, her fear, her pains, her tears, all her own. Everybody can cry a river about their opinions and beliefs about somebody else's situation but until you walk a day in that other person's shoes, judge not. People really need to stop staying out of other people's business. If I create the light then I oversee the light and it is my choice to do what I wish with the light until it leaves my body. As religiously romanticizing as I'm making this, that's my point.


Date: Wed Feb 02 00:44:29 2011
From: Katerina
Email: yekaterinabezpalaya@gmail.com
Location: Florida
Comment:

Vagina is a medical term and therefore there is nothing wrong with it's usage.


Date: Wed Feb 02 19:09:44 2011
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Katerina:

Yes, yes, all of that is true enough. Your argument is typical of the “Libertarian” approach, and thus it contains a fatal flaw. It is self-centered and self-serving, while pretending to be championing human rights or something. But we live in a social system, and we need to consider what that social system needs that may be beyond our own personal needs.

If you say I want to abort someone and it is nobody else’s business, and you are willing to say someone else wants to commit abortion and that’s none of my business then you are making a profound statement about the social order you want to live within. What are its rules? Where did they come from? By what standard or norm do you tell right from wrong? Is right from wrong an infinitely variable thing? Is there any standard at all upon which to base civil law?

What you are truly championing here is sexual licentiousness. What you are talking about is aborting people as a mere method of artificial contraception in order to allow unlimited sexual gratification for its own sake. Libertarian amorality says that anyone has the “right” to do anything at all so long as it does not infringe on anyone else’s rights or property, and that sounds very good. I submit that it is very bad, for any society.

Publicly accepting, embracing, legalizing, promoting and establishing as an acceptable social norm such things as unlimited abortion, publicly expressed homosexuality, any other form of sexual licentiousness, – what do these things say about us as a people? What kind of a nation are we?

I will accept your argument as having some validity as soon as you show me some scientific or historic evidence of any nation or people, ever, who blessed such things as unlimited abortion and who prospered from it.

The problem does not begin and end with your vagina, Katrina.

Regards,

Vic


Date: Sat Sep 17 05:40:52 2011
From: Dr. Najuma Qureshi
Email:
Location:
Comment:

There is no doubt that abortion is morally reprehensible, but I believe that it can be justified in some cases. For example, when a woman willingly chooses to have sex, she is also knowingly accepting all the attendant benefits and risks including the risk of getting pregnant in spite of any contraceptive methods that might be employed. She then has the responsibility to see the pregnancy to term. But if the sex act is against her will, as in rape or incest or both, then I do not believe she has any moral duty towards the rapist or any potential pregnancy resulting from the intercourse. She can go for an abortion if she chooses to. It is not out of hate towards the fetus, merely self preservation.

And medical risks are not confined to ectopic pregnancy. Tumors in the uterus, uncontrolled diabetes or hypertension, kidney problems, history of hard drug use in the past (especially meth, benzos, or cocaine), congenital deformities, all can make the risk of carrying the pregnancy to term unacceptable, though 100% certainty of death as mentioned in one of the responses above seems rather farfetched.

Your thoughts?


Date: Sat Sep 17 06:33:34 2011
From: Vic Biorseth
Comment:

Dr. Qureshi:

The first clause of your first sentence says it all. If a thing is morally reprehensible, then there can be no cases in which it is not morally reprehensible. It is either morally reprehensible or it is not. In the cases you cite related to rape or incest, the “moral duty” of the victim of the rape or incest is not properly directed toward the perpetrator, but toward the new human being, who didn’t do anything to anyone. She cannot “go for an abortion if she chooses to” and somehow be free of sin.

We play the hand we are dealt in this life in preparation for the next life, in the sure knowledge that this life is not all there is. Sometimes that means sacrifice, and sometimes it means the ultimate sacrifice. Obviously, all are not up to it, and that is why abortion has always been with us, and most likely will always be with us, until the end of the age. The vast overwhelming majority of abortions committed in this country are not of the type you speak of, but they are committed for mere convenience, as part of a chosen life-style.

It is when abortion is codified into law and the public conscience about it is so desensitized to it and so deadened to the sin of it that a whole nation of people begins to lose their souls to evil. This is especially true for medical practitioners, because doctors are supposed to heal, not kill, and they are called to do everything in their power to save life, and not take life. We now have many, many “doctors” who specialize in abortion, and all they do is take innocent human life, on a regular daily basis, to the exclusion of any other form of medical practice.

God help us.

Regards,

Vic


Note:

Tuesday, October 23, 2012

As part of the ongoing effort to upgrade this whole website, upgraded this webpage to the new BB 2.0 - SBI! 3.0 release and to make use of the new reusable code features.
An earlier phase of this major conversion corrupted or adversely affected some fonts, alignments, quotes and tables in the previously published webpages. Not to worry; this phase is converting them all, one by one. Eventually, every webpage on this site will have the same look and feel as this one.
LOVE this new release!

Regards,

Vic


Please note the language and tone of this monitored Website. This is not the place to stack up vulgar one-liners and crude rejoinders.  While you may support, oppose or introduce any position or argument, submissions must meet our standards of logical rigor and civil discourse.  We will not participate in merely trading insults, nor will we tolerate participants merely trading insults.  Participants should not be thin-skinned or over sensitive to criticism, but should be prepared to defend their arguments when challenged.  If you don’t really have a coherent argument or counter-argument of your own, sit down and don’t embarrass yourself. Nonsensical, immoral or merely insulting submissions will not be published here.  If you have something serious to contribute to the conversation, back it up,  keep it clean and keep it civil.  We humbly apologize to all religious conservative thinkers for the need to even say these things.


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Life itself demands passion.
He who is indifferent to God has already forfeited his soul.
He who is indifferent to politics has already forfeited his liberty.
In America, religion is not mere window dressing and citizenship is not a spectator sport.
Do not allow our common destiny as a whole people to just happen without your input.

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The Purpose of this grouping of links is to highlight the planned and purposeful moral degradation of human culture, in Western Civilization in general, and in America in particular.

The Death of Morality Pages
Beginning, perhaps, with the Reformation, with a mighty surge in the 1930s with the social acceptance of artificial contraception, social standards today are now so low as to make a harlot blush.  Professional politicians of all Parties cooperate with Marxist-materialists in all other fields to actually suppress religion and the morality that flows from religion, not only in the public square, but everywhere, following the moral degradation of popular entertainment. 

Refuting Free Love: the whole 60’s era of Make Love Not War & Sexual Revolution. From Revolution, to Riots and Anarchy, to Sit-Ins, to Love-Ins, the horrible results demand a refuting of free love.

Artificial Contraception: Tool of Materialism with which to destroy Monotheism. Acceptance of Artificial Contraception marked the single most destructive turning point in the history of Western Culture, marking the end of moral norms, foretelling tolerance of anything at all.

The Sexual Revolution: Sexual Freedom, or enslavement and degradation? The Sexual Revolution was supposed to free us, rather than enslave us, and uplift us, rather than degrade us. It was a lie from the beginning; it degraded whole cultures and attacked human dignity.

Welcome to America's Protected Multi-Billion Dollar Masturbation Industry . That the government simultaneously censors Christian expression and protects pornography, the main product of the Giant Masturbation Industry, is a pure national disgrace.

Abortion in America: Supreme Court takes complete charge of American Government. Through decisions regarding abortion, the Court arbitrarily and without opposition, systematically undid representative, legislated law in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, and Made New Law.

Being pro choice or pro woman's right to choose equals being pro abortion. Saying you are pro choice, or pro right to choose, is saying you are pro abortion. Period. Pro choice equals pro abortion.

Femi-Nazi -ism: The Leftist, authoritarian Movement that commandeered Feminism. The Femi-Nazi Movement seeks to modify our language and culture, restrict our speech and press, and create and alienate yet another "disenfranchised" group.

Homo Nazi -ism assaults the Western Culture ethos of our American majority. The grass-roots Homo Nazi is for the most part a simple immoral selfist. But the homo-Nazi in the rarified atmosphere of city, state and national politics is a much more sinister character.

What does normalized, mainstreamed, open homosexuality say about us as a people? Our argument against open homosexuality is an argument for the continuance of Western Civilization, the Western Culture Ethos and the normative family.

So the Marxists get their wish again: an openly homosexual American military. An openly homosexual American military has been the goal of Secularists, Marxists and other Democrats for decades.

On Evil and Nonsense: Look closely at Nonsense, and find Evil at its root. Evil and Nonsense: deny evil and you deny right vs. wrong; which is to deny common sense, which is to invoke nonsense.

Ascendent Heterophobia & Utter Moral Depravity - the new American Guiding Ethos. The Fundamental Transformation of America, from a decent Christian nation into the grips of Heterophobia.


Old North Dayton
is looking for
A Few Good Men
who are Catholic Priests, retired, about to retire or available for reasignment.
CLICK HERE

They dedicated their whole lives to the Lord, and to the uplifting of man. Think of where the world would be if not for them. Support them all you can.
Michael Voris of ChurchMilitant.TV - an orthodox Roman Catholic Combat Engineer (rhetorically speaking.)  Get a free subscription to his site for good Catholic catechesis, and for the Truth in current political issues.
Traditional Latin Tridentine Mass, offered at Assumption Grotto Church in  Detroit, Michigan.  Our deepest prayer, our highest form of worship, and the way God should be treated.  Click here for Latin Mass availability nearest to you, and to add your Latin Mass Church to the list.
Note the Military Assault Rifle common to the American Founding Era.
Your ad here

Atheist Genesis:

In the beginning there was nothing, and nothing happened to nothing.
And then nothing accidentally exploded and created everything.
And then some bits of everything accidentally encountered other bits of everything and formed some new kinds of everything.
And then some bits of everything accidentally arranged themselves into self-replicating bits of everything.
And then some self-replicating bits of everything accidentally arranged themselves into dinosaurs.
See?

(See Argument Refuting Darwinism)

Torn and tattered, bruised and battered, but still flying high.

General Commentary Pages
Various unrelated topics that stirred thought and provoked writing (or quoting) at one time or another. The Everything Else Bucket.  

Work at home jobs that have had me. A long, costly and unsuccessful run at work from home jobs that didn't work for us.

Truth versus Agenda addresses the simplest of problems greatly complexified. Truth versus Agenda examines the contest between reality and its opposition.

Vic has Iron Weights for sale; Mama says they have to go. Lots of iron weights for sale; all have to go at once, in one sale.

The challenge describes Capitalism as illusory and Marxism as solid. The mixture of religion just adds to the confusion of all good realists.

Indifferentism and Moral Relativism eats away at Catholic Culture. Catholicism stands against Indifferentism. Where do you stand?

My poor old truck is again starting to look like a poor old truck. After half-a-million miles, we're now approaching another decision time; another paint job, or a new truck.

Battle Line: Where the advancing secular army meets Judeo-Christian moral norms. The Secular Position (or Agenda) involves Proactive, Aggressive Anti-Theism, and not merely "neutral" Atheism.

A return to the American Ideal means a severe reduction in Government. To return to positive growth and progress means, necessarily, purging our nation from all Marxist-Socialist philosophical influence and a return to the American Ideal.

Why this hatred of Palin? What galls modern women of the Left about Sarah Palin? The blind hatred of Palin we’re seeing expressed is not merely because of hatred and intolerance of the pro-life religious moral standard.

A Palin Parker Ticket? My Dream Candidates for 2012. Why a Palin Parker ticket is better than any professional politician Republican ticket you can come up with for 2012.

Elitism Vs Palinism: Why the Left and the Elites Loath and Fear Sarah Palin. It isn’t just Marxism Vs Palinism; it’s also established intellectual elitism vs Palinism. The elite need someone to look down upon.

How is it that opposing amnesty for millions of illegal aliens is "arrogant"? If my pro-Catholic, pro-American, anti-alternative-ethos position is "arrogant," then, exactly what is the position of those who claim superiority or even equality with it?

Here we see Bush family class captured in a simple private citizen’s photo. George W. (and Mrs.) Bush quietly demonstrate Bush family class without hoopla or fanfare.

Marxists love crisis, and they love an oil spill crisis most of all. Marxists even create and drive crisis. Their favorite crisis of all must be the Oil Spill Crisis, which is even better than a Banking Crisis.

American Military Assault Weapons originally intended in the 2nd Amendment. To miss the point of the 2nd Amendment is to miss the point of the whole Constitution.

For God and Country – More Thoughts on America, and on National Existence. For God and Country: Comparisons of martyrdom and heroism, Sovereign Nationhood Vs. Internationalism, distinct people-hood Vs. the Global Village, and Godliness Vs. godlessness.

The Godless Left leads the young and naive to their utopian Hell. For an honest comparison of the effects on youth, we need to look to the history of the Godless Left versus the Religious Right.

The Rabbi Meir Kahane Open Letter to the World is a must read. No decent world history course is complete without the Rabbi Meir Kahane Open Letter to the World.

Aleksandr I.Solzhenitsyn warns the American Worker and American organized labor. Solzhenitsyn speaks to us as a worker from the “Worker’s Paradise” of Communism; words of warning for all who understand the meaning of the word Liberty.

World Revolution returns with a vengeance: the rebirth of Marxism. Marxist world revolution returns, and faces far less opposition than in 1848 or the period between the Great Wars.

Our argument against public despair, hopelessness and pessimism re the future. Despair is a mortal sin, the opposite of the virtue of hope; it is a sin unto the death of the soul, a repudiation and rejection of God’s grace.

On Threats to America's National Existence. A look at the nature of our national existence, what makes us America, physical threats to that, and the possibility of just going out of existence.

On the ethics of language: English dictionary Vs. Political-Correctness taboos. Language evolves, yet morals are (or should be) fixed. This poses questions re the ethics of language.

Thinking Catholic direction: threats to America, Church, Ethos, even History. The Thinking Catholic Direction is multi-faceted, facing threats to American National Existence, Catholic Liturgy, our common Guiding Ethos - emphasis changes to meet the threat of the moment.

Catholics learn and practice Glossalalia, in the Life In The Spirit seminars. Life in the Spirit seminars, fueling the Catholic Charismatic renewal, bring tongue-speaking "Glossalalia", and being "Slain in the Spirit", to Catholicism.

The website is going on hold for at least the next five weeks. Business calls, and I must respond. Will be traveling, and not taking the laptop this time.

Current Website Status. Still too busy for individual responses to questions, comments & criticisms.

Our 2006 Ohio Voter Guide. The choices are quite clear, and the 2006 Ohio Voter Guide was easy to produce.

On carrying my Lord, Jesus Christ, in my pocket. As a Eucharistic Minister, I am on occasion carrying the Lord Jesus in my pocket. It's a wondrous thing.

A 2006 Christmas and Hanukkah wish. May the Holy Days we celebrate remind us all of who we are, and how we are different from other peoples.

Current Democratic Party platform reveals anti-Semitic streak among Liberals. In their voting, their speechifying, and in the slant of their controlled mainstream media reporting, the current Democratic Party Platform is made clear to all observers.

The "Left", and The DaVinci Code, The Passion, and Cartoons of Mohammed. You can tell a lot about a movement by its public words.  The Passion? "Unreservedly Bad." The DaVinci Code? "Unreservedly Good." Anything to do with Islam? "No Comment."

Who's driving the Health Care bus? Health insurance companies "grading" doctors? Health insurance companies grading doctors: a legitimized conflict of interest. A preparatory step toward the nationalization of the health insurance industry?

On the forced use of medical boiler plate language rather than simple notes. The "little dictators" from insurance companies and government bureaucracies force MDs to use stilted, verbose, medical boiler plate language in their own documentation.

Home For Christmas 2008. Website Getting Active Again

Hydrogen power could be, and should be, the wave of our automotive future. Any move toward hydrogen power is a move toward a cleaner and more efficient fuel, and away from our dangerous dependency on oil.

Thoughts in remembrance of 09/11/2001, five years later. The changing shape of the war, the changing shape of the enemy.

The Jewish Shabbat. Description of Jewish Shabbat (Sabbath) from my Holy Land item supplier.

Kerry lies again, and then lies about his lies, in concert with the SLIMC. There he goes again! Kerry lies again and again about American servicemen and veterans; he just can't help himself.

Kerry's Lies: The Old, Vietnam-Era Anti-War Chickens are Comming Home to Roost. POW Lawsuit Could Force Kerry To Come Clean - by George "Bud" Day, Chairman, Vietnam Veterans Legacy Foundation.

What's going on with Mel Gibson? Is he really an anti-Semite? I am surprised that Mel Gibson is an alcolholic.  But I am never surprised at any words that come out of the mouth of any drunk.

Still Worrying Over NuVo Consequences. The Holidays have gone by, several days have passed, and the SANE  NuVo Initiative still stands pat.

The Dem's October Surprise involves another flip-flop of their public "standard". The clearly pro-sodomy Party that openly seeks the "Gay" vote goes Victorian for another pre-election October Surprise ploy.

Some Problems with NuVo: the so-called Null-Vote Initiative. A "philosophical" movement aimed at keeping religious conservatives from voting? Seriously? Let me state my problems with NuVo.

Come, let us sit and reason together. Jews and Christians of various stripe and spot can say to each other, 'Come, let us sit and reason together.' But we can't do that with the Moslems.

Regarding SANE works dropping NuVo: Nul Vote Initiative dies with a whimper. If you can't really present a good argument, sit down. On SANE Works dropping the NuVo Initiative: a program that works hard to SOUND pro-American while ACTING to oppose American National Existence.

Even experts grossly underestimate the Marxist zeal of the American Left. The sharp Left turn happened in the Hoover-FDR era, and the Marxism of the American Left has been deepening ever since.

Thinking American, in a nutshell: When one has lots to say, but time is limited. The older I get, the busier I get. Answering multiple questions as a thinking American, but in a hurry.

"We are an Easter People, and Hallelujah is our Song." (John Paul the Great) Our absolutely unique and singular Easter story, and the incredible force with which it struck human history.

Witnessing, grieving and weeping for our dieing culture.  What might it take to call a whole people back from the brink of cultural death?

If we have an inherent right to something, then, who must supply it?  Rights and Responsibilities exist in paired sets; a right does not exist in the absence of a related responsibility.  If indeed we have a right to our job, then, someone must provide it. Who?

So how come we have all these homeless people if our system is so great? The strong "Utopian Idealist" firmly believes that absolute worldly perfection is actually possible.  Therefore, there should never be any such thing as a hungry or homeless person.

Taking a look at Illegal Imigration and Tax Problem solutions. In our view, the minimum wage and income tax have outlived their usefulness, and only contribute to the illegal alien problem. 

First journal / blog entries when the thinking catholic blog first opened up. Notes to readers about what I was doing. 

On-going WebSite work and planned WebPages as of 09/07/2006. Adding items to book store. 

Vic's busted finger status - life goes on. Another busted finger status report, since the original one rolled off of the 50-entry BLOG update records.

Website Status as of 02/05/2009. No more Bookstore; no more Contact Me; no more complexity.

Website Status 03-09-2009. Just a note to bring you up to date on website status 03-09-2009.

Website Status 04/06/2009. Busy driving daily now; most website work will be weekend and as available.

The Plastic Bags and Eco Doom theory: will plastic bags end life as we know it? Plastic Bag and Eco Doom predictions tell us that plastic grocery and garbage bags will still be buried in the land fills and dumps a thousand years from now.  Well … so what?

Farewell Smokey Biorseth; Rest In Peace.  Hello Coal Biorseth; Welcome Home. As we were laying our beloved Smokey Biorseth to rest in his grave beside the lilies, a carbon-copy of Smokey, in younger form, emerged from the lilies.

Honky Biorseth really runs this house. If you want to know what's in any cabinet in the house, just ask Honky Biorseth.

Kill the illegal alien marketplace, and illegal aliens will leave on their own. Why should we "imagine" life with no Mexico? Shouldn't the Mexicans be trying to imagine no such thing as the USA?

More Marxist infiltration of higher education. Public school and the media are not the only places dominated by Marxist thought; even Catholic institutions are infected.

Of Families and Fortunes, and Inheritance Vs. Redistribution. Families and Fortunes are despised by Marxists, because Marxism demonizes the family, demonizes fortunes, and even demonizes profit.

Website Status Update 11/09/10. Just a Website status update; where we are and where we’re going.

Regarding the 2010 Tax Deal Pledge Breaker: Pledge? What Pledge? How can Republican deal makers even face us? We need to hang a Tea Party target on all professional politicians for 2012.

Pray for peace in Jerusalem, and for deliverance of Israel from harm. To pray for peace in Jerusalem is to pray for deliverance from Obama.

A tale of Promised Financial Melt-Down Debt Ceiling Nonsense and Happy Marxists. Everyone, on both sides, believes the Debt Ceiling Nonsense.  Why?

God and Nature: on the Nature of Things, established by the Creator of Things. God and Nature: on man’s Perversion of the Nature of Things, even with the best of intentions.

Our Ohio voter Guide for the 2012 Election. The 2l012 Ohio Voter Guide – The Choices Have Never Been Clearer, or more critical.

Evangelization enters the animal kingdom with the first bear prayer. It is fitting that the first bear prayer would be a prayer of thanksgiving.

Is the Internet down in Lithuania? Sudden loss of Lithanian traffic suggests the internet is down in Lithuania. 

The rise of the Femi Nazi Green Beret, and the decline of military victory. The first Femi Nazi Green Beret will be awarded out of fairness, not excellence.

Food Insurance: Is this stuff really any good? All of us conspiracy-theorizing, global-calamity doomsday-preppers need their Food Insurance.

We just had to try to do Robert Irvine's Plastic Wrapped Baby Back Ribs. Put plastic wrapped baby back ribs in the oven? What? Are you nuts?

Thoughts on the first Eucharist, established by the Last Supper.  The first Eucharist was recognized by the Apostles for what it was on that holiest Holy Thursday.

Tea-Party-Candidates-04-18-2014.  The Constitution is not going to be restored to legal preeminence unless we replace leadership incumbents of BOTH PARTIES.

Ecce homo; Behold the man.  Ecce Homo.  Behold the Innocent Lamb, who takes away the sins of the world.

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