Formerly the Thinking Catholic Strategic Center
Michelle Lobdell, Tuesday, November 10, 2009
(Refer to http://www.newswithviews.com/Kincaid/cliff366.htm by Cliff Kincaid, for the following remarks.)
Vic, I have challenged you in the past regarding your loyalty to the church, (not your faith). I have yet to see an answer that refutes my position. The church is rotten to the core. See it for what it is. The Vatican is complicit in establishing the New World Order i.e. global slavery. There is just too much evidence for you to ignore. Not your fault - pray for Jesus to come swiftly. God Bless you.
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Date: Thu Nov 12 18:54:11 2009
From: Vic Biorseth
Thank you for the blessing.
Forgive me but my memory fails me here; perhaps age is catching up with me. They say the first three things to go are your memory, and I forget the other two. If we conversed via e-mail before I eliminated the old CONTACT ME website option, all those e-mails are now gone forever. There were just too many diverse dialogues going on for me to keep track of. I apologize if I failed to answer something you sent.
Your main point seems to be that the Church is rotten to the core, with at least hints at complicity in a grand conspiracy toward a New World Order. The term New World Order is popular in several variants of Marxism, popular with many current Democrat politicians and spokesmen, and even, believe it or not, with some Islamists. While I tend to reject grand, great conspiracy theories out-of-hand, I do recognize the general thought pattern involved here, and the sheep-like trend of many to favor this positive sounding term.
However, let me make two points. First, the Church is not rotten to the core. Second, she is not deeply involved in any grand New World Order conspiracy. The fact that many Catholics, including even prelates, may be confused or wrong-headed or miss-guided on worldly matters of politics, or any other non-ecclesial issue, does not make the Church evil, nor does it make her any different than any other social group. Civil government and politics are subjects outside of the Depositum Fidei and thus not subject to infallible Church authority. (See the Papal Infallibility page.)
The Church is called to engage culture, and she does that. She has every right to speak in public. The Church is very large, and contains many varied political opinions, as may be expected. Therefore, we may not expect to find every bishop and every pope well versed and in perfect agreement with all points in our particular Constitution, or any other nation’s constitution. Some of them will be Liberals and some of them will be Conservatives and some of them will be mushy, lukewarm, go-with-the-flow no-opinion neutrals. Just like the rest of us.
For the most part, clerics will tend to be more tender hearted than most of us, and the thought of hunger or want in the world will push them more toward the “fairness” and “egalitarian” side of the argument, making them ripe for variants of Marxism. But – remember this – they are Churchmen; they govern ecclesial matters, not civil ones. They only offer opinions on matters of civil government. Their opinions are worthy of respectful consideration.
I took issue with Benedict XVI in the Papal Global Economics page over his encyclical that seemed to me to be encouraging even more Obamunism than we have already experienced.
I would have to say the same thing about the John XXIII encyclical mentioned in your reference link article. If you read it, farther down, after the favorable treatment of the “right” of health care, he speaks of the right to private property, which may be argued to be at the root of all other rights, short of the right to life itself. Thus, the encyclical contains two principles so contradictory as to be irreconcilable.
Rights and Responsibilities come in paired sets. If someone has an automatic right to something, then someone else has a responsibility to satisfy that right. Thus, if I have an absolute right to health care, then some physician has an absolute responsibility to treat me, for free. His ability to provide health care is his property, earned and acquired by him, for him. But, if I have a right to it, then it is my property, regardless of how hard he worked and whatever else it may have cost him to acquire it. It is mine. There goes the right to private property.
And if the state takes from someone simply to give to someone else, that is essentially the same thing. It is most certainly not charity. It is stealing. Good intentions do not change the nature of it; it is still stealing.
But these are merely opinions expressed about worldly politics, by people who do not participate in the game, except as lowly citizens, voters and tax payers. On such topics, we all argue as equals.
I have argued with professors, both lay and clerical, in Catholic teaching institutions about their “official” pro-sodomy and pro-priestess teaching, presented under the authority of an archbishop; see the various Cafeteria Catholic pages. When I know I am right, standing on Scripture and the Catechism, I will argue with anyone, short of the pope, even on matters of faith and morals.
When the topic is bow hunting, or turkey calling, or NASCAR, or musky fishing, or how to change the plugs in my wife’s car, or American politics, I will argue as an equal or even a superior to any cleric. When the topic changes to faith and morals, I will tone it down considerably. And when a pope speaks as teacher on faith and morals, I will shut my mouth and listen. I may even take a knee.
But that’s not what I saw in these particular encyclicals.
I hope I’ve responded adequately; I always enjoy a reasoned argument with an anti-Catholic. What is your religion, and how does it compare to Catholicism? What is Cliff Kincaid’s religion, and how does it compare to Catholicism?
May the Lord bless and keep you; with kind regards,
Date: Sun Nov 15 03:59:03 2009
How about the bishops just negotiating with Pelosi to get the pro-abortion language out of the health care bill just to get it passed in the House? The bishops are clearly in favor of this bill, which stands to nearly demolish the American economy and with it American liberty as we all recognize it. They love and push for the so called “human right” to universal health care.
Date: Sun Nov 15 06:27:55 2009
From: Vic Biorseth
Right you are.
However, the bishops are Americans too. They are (and they have every right to be) just as economically ignorant and just as politically stupid as any other Leftist silly utopian idealists. They are (probably) almost universally pro-union, too. They probably favor most Democrat Party ideals. Some of them probably favor the homosexual agenda.
Some very few of them may be involved in political collusion with Marxocrats, just as some few of them may be involved in some form of scandalous activity. But until I see some real evidence, I do not believe they are all involved in any grand conspiracy toward any political New World Order. Nor do I yet believe the Church has failed in her mission.
We have it on the very best authority that she will not fail, and that the very gates of hell will not prevail against her.
Date: Sun Nov 15 10:11:52 2009
It goes a whole lot deeper than that; look at how our bishops have misused our donations to CCHD for purely political purposes to support Obama and his whole agenda. Why should we donate to ACORN and similar groups? How can you say the whole church is not involved in this?
Date: Sun Nov 15 12:11:44 2009
From: Vic Biorseth
Apparently this is still a hot topic. I just spoke briefly about it to our guest priest in the sacristy just before Mass this morning, and to another parishioner later. And yesterday, while demonstrating outside another Planned Parenthood book sale, we spoke about it with some fellow demonstrators.
The American bishops – even a majority of American bishops – do not represent the whole of “The Church.” See what I wrote about their previous political actions in the 2008 Political Crisis page; there we saw that they even involved themselves in Saul Alinsky funded organizations, showing themselves to be either Marxists or dupes of Marxists.
Again, these are just a pack of American bishops, and I have taken issue with American bishops in other areas too, as you can see in the various Cafeteria Catholic pages and several other pages. We no longer give to CCHD, and we do not intend to resume giving until we see hard evidence of a renouncing and turning from this Marxist direction. We suggest that you do the same, and write to your bishop to show your displeasure.
Date: Tue Feb 22 22:56:03 2011
From: Keith Richard Radford Jr
Exorcism and sex?
Let me tell you about my families setting me up for an exorcism and her need for money through political, and religious pandering concerning sex.
I remember living behind a church were Brian Lamb, and a bunch of these Cspan guys used too have a wood shop. At that place of residence my mom thought I needed an exorcist, after playing in the mud the way very young children will sometimes with my uncle who mixed a glass of this red clay in water and told me it was chocolate milk.
After drinking it as he would force me to do thing all the time like the time he made me cut off the limb I was sitting on and the device came out of my shoulder being more powerful and in control I broke out with ring worm all over my body and my mom told me it was writing that could not be understood so she had priests come in from the church.
I guess my Dad did not know that one of the people at the church was in line for being my new dad but that was not in the cards because I guess he felt I was in need of discipline after an accident in the wood shop. I had been check out on the band saw by my grandfather who was a millwright in Arkansas and to do some jobs the blade shield had to be removed. Some kids came in and wanted to use the saw, then got mad that I wanted to warn them to put the guard on and they told me they owned it all and I was not to tell them anything, and after this head strong kid cut his thumb off the other kids said they would tell their fathers it was all my fault, but it was not.
I had a fever of well over a hundred and I was a bloody mess with the infection. The priests came in with outer guys and one had a camera. The priests would throw me across the room well the other snapped a picture. I would fall on furniture and the floor and they would tell me get on the bed, don't get off the bed very loud and when I would crawl back on the bed they would pick me up and throw me over and over again well the other priest would snap another picture and this went on till one guy said we have enough picture and they left me in the blood, mud, and bedding, then my aunt came in with some save that was for ring worm.
She spread the save and kidded me about dying when the rings got to my heart. After getting well I went back to the wood shop and the guys had made me a special shield and gave me my sword which were both made of wood and I had to fight one of the guys in my shorts because I did not want to remove them and the other guy was naked (he know who he is). I was still not up too speed and lost the battle. They then called me the bad guy and this group was supposed to be my gate keeper or something like that appointed by the priests. My Dad did not like them much also but that did not matter much because someone at the church was going to be my new dad till he said no, my mom cried allot, my dad was gone, I healed up, but I still have a case.
Please know that there is nothing any of you can do to make what you and the rest of the ones involved can do to make this my fault. See at the time I was about seven years old. Since then the church has made an effort to kill me, to the extent of trying to pass laws to kill sex offenders.
Come on, keep it up, keep pushing laws that you as a group of very said individuals know have no value. Take me too court so I can own a network. I have met with your staff members in private since along with military personal and others.
Now lets note when this happened I was only a small child being thrown around a room like a rag doll by people that started all this clear back in the late fifty's and the steering by very bad people that think abusing kids to make laws to stop abuse, Ha! these laws are bogus and the fact that they can not kill gays anymore does not justify the use of laws too kill someone set up by them to create some worthless set of laws by a fusion of church and state is wrong and realty designed by them to harm us all.
My case was pragmatic but more than that I know what was done and who was involved making vendetta laws that really have no bases in truth, and are based in lies.
Keith Richard Radford Jr
PSS don't be cowards, let me know you received this e-mail through a response.
It's time to communicate email@example.com
Date: Thu Feb 24 06:15:05 2011
From: Vic Biorseth
I am very sorry, but I don’t have the foggiest notion of how to respond to your submission, other than to pray for you. Perhaps someone else out there can help you.
Date: Sun Nov 13 09:27:39 2011
From: Ann Asher
I think the common error is to attribute to "The Church" what some of her priests, bishops, cardinals, papal councils, do in her name. The recent news headlines "Vatican Calls for Global Financial Authority" proves this point. There does seem to be similar occurrence at the Vatican as you, Vic, highlight to be the case with free wheeling US committees, offices, departments ... where there seems to be lack of oversight. Even though the above incident was followed up with correction that it didn't have Papal Authority and is just the idea of the particular council we would be blind to believe others like them have never been successful in steering the Church in a particular direction. No The Church is not rotten however some of her "highest" members are; we don't abandon the Ark of Salvation - we toss the dissenters in the brig.
Date: Sun Nov 13 09:40:33 2011
From: Ann Asher
FYI Keith Richard Radford Jr.'s statement shows strong signs of deception. Note how he switches into present or future tense when retelling what "happened" to him. We learn at a young age to choose verb tense and pronoun use in microseconds. Richard leaks out that he is making up much of his statements when he switches pronouns, uses present tense where we would expect past tense, and leaves himself out of sentences by failing to speak first person singular. Likely there were some priests who befriended his mom, marital troubles and the incident with the kids in the wood shop, mom may have had some obsession with exorcism. What he says about the priest feigning exorcism is imagined.
Wednesday, December 19,
Converted Page to SBI! Release 3.0 BB 2.0.
(Note, for anyone interested in this dialogue - see the newer Lucifer and the CCHD page, which shows some rather damning evidences against some of our higher-ups in the American Catholic heirarchy.)
Date: Sun Nov 16 2014
From: Vic Biorseth
Changes pursuant to changing the website URL
and name from
Thinking Catholic Strategic Center to
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Pulled the trigger on the 301 MOVE IT option June 1, 2014. Working my way through all the webpages. .
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