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(NOTE: The SANE site has gone “underground” and become a members-only site, apparently after being stung by public arguments with this site over their NUVO Initiative under the motto “Don’t vote; it only encourages them.” Bottom line, what their reasoned arguments are driving toward is an America with some form of an un-representative government, coupled with an inability or unwillingness to precisely describe what form of un-representative government it is to be, and we are to be governed by. Their ultimate goal is, I conjecture, some variant of Marxism, which would explain why they don’t want to talk about it out loud or in public any more. Go to the NuVo Consequences link, the Chistmas 2006 link, the Problems With NuVo link, and finally the SANE Works Dropping NuVo link to see the whole of the discussions before the SANE web site went “private.”)
(NOTE 2 10/27/2008: SANE has informed me that the re-designed site is back up in public form; I note that the whole NuVo Initiative set of articles and comments, if they still exist, have been moved to a still private “members only” section of that site, so it cannot be seen by non-contributing members any more. SANE also states strongly that they do not support or promote any form of Marxism. They still oppose (I think) Parliamentary Democracy, which is obviously inferior to our own Jeffersonian Democracy, or if you prefer, Republicanism, or Constitutional Republic. However, in their communication I’ve seen no practical real-world recommended replacement for Representative Government, in any form, once all American citizens voting has been eliminated. I submit that, to oppose the citizen vote is to oppose representative government. That point aside, while I still have an uneasy feeling regarding hints of racism and intellectual elitism at SANE, it remains the best, most resourceful and innovative site I’ve seen that is adamantly opposed to the ultimate victory of Islam over America and over the entire world.)
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Respond to This Article Below The Last Comment
Date: Sat Oct 25 19:24:55 2008
From: SANE Staff
Now that SANE is back live, and we saw a visitor or two from your site linked through, we took a look at your NuVo analysis. Mr. Yerushalmi asked us to respond to you since we recall your inputs fondly.
The truth is, we took the site down for 9 months for two reasons. One, to redesign it into a blog. Two, to move all of the original knowledge base to the Premium Archive. Now, we did that for two reasons. One, because it was material that few people could or would take the time to read with care--and as you know--that would lead to misunderstanding. Two, due to number one, to avoid CAIR's easy cyberspace vandalism -- attempting to slander Messrs. Yerushalmi and Gaubatz with out of context quotes.
In fact, NuVo was never used by CAIR and other Muslim Brotherhood types or Leftists to defame SANE. This is not the reason.
Now, given the choices in today's presidential elections, one might quite correctly challenge NuVo on practical, time-saving grounds. That would be a fine argument.
But back to SANE. You will note we are now attempting to post shorter more reader-friendly blurbs but with far more depth than one is typically used to.
Finally, the one thing Mr. Yerushalmi asked us to correct on your comments re NuVo. And, in this correction we recognize here and appreciate your single criticism of NuVo/SANE: that while we had clearly laid out the problem of the Science-Democracy Reciprocal, we did not set out an alternative.
We had tried to explain way back when, but here it is again. If one appreciates the Truth of Existence as given by God, one should understand that there is no "answer" (or shall we say pat answer) to political order. Certainly, as a good Catholic, you have studied Plato and Aristotle. There are modes of being in political each appropriate to a distinct people in a distinct place.
You can understand this by looking at Gaza. The Palestinians embraced democracy for the first time after YA's death. They embraced Shariah and Hamas--terror.
America and Americans at the founding embraced a constitutional Republic in an attempt to embrace both the S-D Reciprocal inherent in the Enlightenment but also as a way to brace against it--i.e., what happened in the French Revolution.
Now, most certainly, you are absolutely wrong to suggest that anyone associated with SANE would propose or be in favor of any form of Marxism--for that is a priori the death of Man's soul and if you understood anything about SANE, you understood we would propose nothing of the sort.
Anyway, we like the way your site has developed. Keep up the good work.
Date: Oct 26 06:15.23 2008
From: Vic Biorseth
Subject: Un-representative government.
See NOTE 2 added below your site link.
Date: Nov 02 11:15:24 2008
From: SANE Staff
Subject: Hints of Racism
You seem to have forgotten. We do not oppose "voting" or abdicate that it be eliminated. The NuVo initiative was an act of defiance in the face of the fall from being. This was a protest of a sort, but more than that. It was an affirmation that we would not participate in our own destruction.
Now, as to "hints of racism", we'd all ask that you spell those out and have a thorough discussion for as you know, such a charge in today's highly charged politicization of all of life is a death sentence. A virtuous Catholic ought to do more than cast aspersions.
Date: Nov 03 06:25:46 2008
From: Vic Biorseth
Subject: Hints of Racism
Excuse me, but, you did indeed oppose voting, and recommended that the most thoughtful and decent people abstain from voting. This was the fixed, permanent, unflinching and adamant argument that originally lit my fire on the topic. I am most happy now, finally, to see that you do not oppose voting or abdicate that it be eliminated. Your prior arguments in that direction were compelling and your predicted consequences of voting quite riveting; however, I still maintain that encouraging the best, brightest and most decent among us to not vote could not possibly bode well for the future of representative government in general and America in particular.
The “hints of racism,” and also gender-bias, of which I speak are just that: hints, and nothing more. Nothing explicit. Your mission statement contains an example of such a mild hint, in referring to America being founded by men who were almost exclusively white. While I think that particular statement is a perfectly innocent statement of historical fact, there have been stronger “hints” in arguments I participated in, and in some of your no longer visible articles. These included even the possible “disenfranchisement” of non-Caucasian and non-male participation voting. Now, all of these may have been from participants rather than SANE itself; but they tended to show a trend to elitism, at least, that should be renounced by SANE.
In point of fact, it is by accident of history that Western Civilization developed as an almost exclusively European culture. All of Northern Africa, and indeed the entire Mediterranean coast was Roman Catholic before the onslaught of Islam “converted” them by use of the sword. If Islam had not arisen and made such a conquest, it is entirely possible that America would have been originally settled by a much more racially diverse group than a purely European one.
Past statements that such things as suffrage (women’s vote) and the 14th Amendment granting the vote to the pre-slaves were somehow negative things that contributed to the demise of our culture or our unique people-hood are further “hints.” I submit that by the time of the 14th Amendment a majority of America’s blacks were Christian, making them, at least somewhat, Western, at least in their grounding, morality and ethos, and that they had more in common with us than with their own African ancestors. By today, that majority has increased (I conjecture) to something like 90% or more.
New (to me) revelations about the preaching of Jeremiah Wright and, some say, many other black “Christian” preachers, gives me pause – I have no way of knowing how many black Americans have been thus infected with racism and anti-Americanism and the Marxism born of so called Liberation Theology. I would still bet (and I still pray) that the clear majority of American blacks are more Western in their thinking and living than anything else.
Nevertheless, whether that be true or not, freedom is not for an elite or for a select few. Like the unwarranted, unmerited, unearned Grace from God, freedom is a blessing given to all, not some. Like Grace, freedom must be accepted and cooperated with, voluntarily, by men who are granted free will. And free will necessarily means the ability to reject what is offered. Women and blacks and other minorities with American citizenship should be granted the same legal protections, remedies and rights as the rest of us not so much because they necessarily deserve it, but because it is right. It is the right thing to do.
Date: Thu Jul 03 2014
From: Vic Biorseth
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