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Vic Biorseth, https://www.catholicamericanthinker.com
I first discovered it after the 10th essay had been published, and immediately called it into question. The dialogue continued through two more NuVo (Null Vote Initiative) essays, each of which submitted nothing new, just elaboration and restatement of earlier premises and arguments. Throughout all of these dialogues I have sought to find out exactly how SANE expected to remain true to the SANE mission statement, and, simultaneously, get American citizens to not vote anymore, without violating their published mission statement. At the outset, I didn’t think it could be done, and so I expected something more to be forthcoming from that quarter.
Each time I asked for either an explanation of how our original Republic would be restored without any of us ever voting again, or, a description of the system of government that would replace it after we all stopped voting, all I got in response was a list of action items. No explanation; no description; just action items. Ostensibly, these were to take the place of voting somehow. All seemed aimed at fragmenting or further Balkanizing us rather than doing anything really constructive.
And some of the action items presented by SANE aficionados were just plain silly. “Grassroots” political agitation by people who no longer vote and therefore have no true government representation or any voted-in government representatives. Working toward Constitutional Amendments, even, while demonizing all voting, which must include even the voting of government representatives, who would be representatives of other people anyway, the ones who voted for them. “Living right” and working to re-establish American People-hood in little communes or collectives before even considering returning to the voting place. Pipe-dream notions of jabber-jawing fellow Americans back into a national People-Hood and then somehow getting back into the game.
Just craziness. Like, there would be some easily recognized event, and, Poof, we would all be a re-constituted American People, we would all know it at the same time, and America would have achieved perfection. Now, it looks like, they would simply rather not talk about it any more.
At this point, I think enough time has gone by for a safe assumption that they would just like this issue to quietly be forgotten, and just die of its own accord from lack of attention. Way back when I wrote the American National Existence article I stated my growing suspicion that there was an ulterior and probably Leftist motive behind the many, many anti-Democracy cartoons, editorials, essays and articles at SANE, at subtle hints at the future value of disenfranchising some of us, and that, their site mission statement notwithstanding, the NuVo Initiative, if ever fully and completely adopted by all, could only destroy America and eliminate representative government.
I have yet to see anything concrete from the SANE site or from any of the SANE followers to change that viewpoint. The 12th essay in the series came out, and, guess what, it was just a brief rehash of all the other ones, with no real-world path to re-establish the American Republic, in any form, let alone the original form, and another insistence on the "impossibility" of Democracy. I rest my case. So, I’ve copied the now old and (I hope) now dead dialogue from the 12th essay here for future reference. Until it quietly disappears some day from the SANE site, it’s still available at the link below; you can go there and page down to comments after essay number 12 to see the original source of the following comments.
NuVo Number 12 (Page taken down)
Following is the portion of the discussion generated from that essay.
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Thu, January 25, 2007, 06:28 PM
Subject: How do we get back home again?
All of that is quite logical, and beautifully explained.
But what I’m still waiting for is precisely how, and by what mechanism, and by what authority, you envision us, as a nation,
rejecting democracy and party rule
while somehow, and simultaneously, returning to our original
constitutional republic, with a vibrant and real federalism at work, providing for an Executive that can execute its mandate to lead the country, a legislature limited to legislating and to its other enumerated powers, and a court system fully reined in to adjudicate facts before the law and not to legislate by judicial fiat
as you intend in your Mission Statement, and all without anybody ever voting. What is the practical, real-world result of nobody every voting again to be?
Do you have any particular dictator in mind yet?
From: richard olszewski
Date: Mon, January 29, 2007, 09:40 AM
Subject: Let the left-wing do all the voting
I must add my agreement with Mr. Biorseth's remarks. What indeed is the practical, real-world result of nobody every voting again to be?
Actually, I don't believe that no one will be voting. I'm sure that the left-wing will gladly take up the slack that the conservatives will have left behind by dropping out of the electoral process.
From: Mike McKinney
Date: Mon, January 29, 2007, 12:46 PM
Subject: missing the point
Vic and Richard are missing the real point here. If you understand the point of SANE as I have these past months then you know that the WHOLE point of the Science/Democracy reciprocal is to reduce speech to nonsense -- either scientific talk, which is just counting things, or "debate" between equally uncertain opinions. This is what we do when we vote. We argue, yell, scream, call each other names, but at the end of the day, when we vote on EVERYTHING including our very existence we are accepting the rules of the Democracy game: there is no truth of existence other than science and democracy (which is no truth).
So where does voting get you? Now, stop and look around you. Listen to people "debating"/"speaking" to one another: "That's your opinion; everyone's entitled to one." And this is the answer whether you are speaking about national existence, abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality, pedophilia, you name it.
Why is your life and your very existence bound by voting? Live good and live true! Is that not enough of an action item?
Per SANE, the only real action item would be the dismemberment of science. Since no one is voting on that issue, there is really nothing to vote on.
During the run up to the last election, the Republican Kool Aid drinkers told us that if the Dems won in Congress the world would end. It didn't. It just is continuing the same spiral downward.
What would have happened if all conservatives or even just all religious conservatives OPTED out?!? I suggest it would have made the heavens shake. What if ALL religious conservatives turned their backs on "democracy" and took their children out of public schools in favor of home schooling or private parochial schools? What would happen if religious conservatives moved away from the big cities to live in communities that guarded the Truths they know to exist?
I say the NuVo Initiative is a call for a NON VIOLENT REVOLUTION!
As a Catholic, I must say, we Catholics are not much better as a lot than the Jews. The few of us who haven't turned our back on a faithful life need to turn our backs on the infidelities of science and democracy.
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Mon, January 29, 2007, 05:32 PM
Subject: It's the same old same old ...
This is the real world. A real world revolution needs a real world goal and target. If you are merely revolting against the existing basis of order then your true goal is anarchy, chaos, and the absence of order. You (and I, and we) are sitting on the very branch you are sawing off.
Obviously, you despise our Republic. But when you eliminate it, along with all rule of law and all order, the predictable result is that either the luckiest or the most ruthless among us will emerge on top. The most ruthless among us most likely appreciate your quicker path to chaos.
So the question remains: Do you have any preferred dictator in mind yet, or are you happy to just speed the process along to find out who ultimately winds up on top?
From: Mike McKinney
Date: Mon, January 29, 2007, 06:24 PM
Subject: despise our Republic?
Your statement that "obviously, [I] despise our Republic" is off the charts and wholly uncalled for. Where do you get off saying such a thing? I love this country and am a patriotic American. If this country could return to the constitutional Republic we once were at the founding I'd be content enough.
But I do live in the REAL world. What world do you live in? With Reagan and Gingrinch and all the conservative revolution of the 80s and early 90s can you not see a direct line downward? The Reagan years, not all that good for conservatives, was but a spike in the opposite direction. The trend is clear. Now, after all these years of "debate" and "voting", what do you have?
What SANE seems to be saying makes quite good sense to me. What we need do is begin to get Americans to be American again. That doesn't happen by embracing the tactic of the left: more "debate" over uncertainties and "voting" over untruths.
More, where do you derive the notion that I or SANE would scuttle the Constitution? If we could eliminate all of the amendments after the 10th, we'd be on the right path. But OUR constitutional republic as founded did not accept the notion that VOTING was essential for national expression. Voting for white men usually property owners of the Christian faith was important but much else contributed to make this country great.
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Tue, January 30, 2007, 08:17 AM
Subject: Loving our Republic to death?
Please forgive my mistaken observation; perhaps you do not despise our Republic. But with the course you have chosen, and encouraged others to choose, you must agree that you have a very funny way of showing it.
And, I didn’t “derive” the notion that you and/or SANE would scuttle the Constitution; you and SANE have clearly stated it. For example, I refer you to Article I Section 2, which, among other parts, you do indeed seek to scuttle.
Let us not look so much at what SANE “seems to be saying” and more at the real-world consequences of real-world actions. You and SANE are encouraging everyone to not vote any more. You seem to think that that, in and of itself, will somehow restore us to our original Constitution and the first 10 Amendments.
I disagree, and think that it will lead to the end of our Constitution, our government, and America, as we know it. And so I still wonder, do you have any particular dictator in mind yet, or will you just continue to cut down what we now have, watch it fall, and then settle for a role of the dice?
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 07:10 AM
Subject: If all speech is meaningless ...
Mike: Or, Anyone:
The silence around here is quite deafening.
And the absolute no-comment silence regarding my long ago submitted yet unpublished and un-remarked article speaks volumes.
Could it be that the perfect logic and eloquent rhetoric describing how all speech is meaningless has now moved into the real, practical world, so that everyone with any brains at all has now permanently shut their mouths and laid down their pens?
Is there anyone out there?
From: Mike McKinney
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 08:54 AM
Subject: Dear Vic
The silence you hear at least from me, I can't speak for the rest of the NuVo afficianados, goes to the heart of why you continue to struggle with NuVo.
Vic, you appear to be a good man and Catholic. I won't just myself on the first score but we share the latter.
But the whole point of NuVo as I understand it is that if you make this a "debate" between opposing "beliefs", which is what you are effectively doing, you have adopted quite well the science-democracy reciprocal.
You first rather callously accused me of wanting to destroy our constitutional republic. Then you backed off of that and accused me of wanting to destroy the const. by pointing us to the clause for the election of representatives. All of this I can only suppose because I would, as NuVo has suggested, withhold my vote.
But you want to fight fire by pouring gasoline on it. What else is there to say to you? Let's try again.
This country WAS a constitutional republic. It has lost that character and has become without exception an Open Society democracy. Even where some vestige of the former remains, it is absolutely overwhelmed by the latter.
What does voting do? All you can do is argue competing "beliefs". If you want to do something, work to radically amend the constitution BACK to what it was at our founding. But you know that is impractical. Forget the issue of slavery. That is one of the things that got us into this mess. Just look at the Commerce Clause, the 14th Amendment and how it has swallowed most of the first 10 amendments so that we treat the states like the national government and vice versa. We've lost our federal system and with Marbury v Madison and SCt review we've lost any semblance of the Separation of Powers since the Court trumps all.
And you want to stand toe to toe with these people and "debate" which is the same as voting because the underlying premise is that certainty can only be found in the incoherent speech of mathematical physics or the incoherent speech of those idiots who say that everything but mathematical science is mere belief and wholly uncertain.
So, supposed you convince 51% of the people to stop illegal immigration tomorrow. The day after they will change their minds.
Now, you ask sarcastically for a dictator. You have, in your ridicule, certainly hit on something. Look at the 22nd amendment to the constitution and think about how that has destroyed our ability to even fight on their terms.
But if you don't understand that there are many many ways to resist the direction this country is going (SANE calls it the Redirection) and none of those include voting, and in fact would negate voting as incoherent speech, what more can be said?
Be a good Catholic. Raise and educate your children outside the culture of the open society. Teach them what we have learned here. Agitate in civil ways by establishing religious conservative communities in addition to schools, recreation, libraries, higher institutions of learning. The Orthodox Jews seem to take that approach and more and more the Evangelicals are doing so. We Catholics are actually disintegrating with all of the scandals and bankruptcies we face and the long-standing turn toward “rights” and “universalism”. The Catholic community is hardly a community any more. And, like the Jews, we have the Leftist crowd on the one hand which seems to predominate and the "fanatics" like me on the other.
Vic, not every "comment" is worth a reply especially when the comments just repeat themselves. I am not privy to any unpublished article since I just visit here as you do but if it reads like your comments of late then I certainly understand why it was not published. You make no argument but “we must do something!” But what you suggest to do is precisely that which guarantees you have lost the ground which will be your salvation. How do you debate or vote with people who consider all speech (and that is what voting is) as merely matter moving aimlessly in space. This is the modern disease where nothing is True and everything is uncertain to be endlessly debated and voted upon by every Tom, Dick, and Jane that can raise a hand.
You have asked for action items. I have given you some. Now take those up. But don’t expect me to respond again to you cry, “but we must do something” and “but we live in the real world”. I would argue rather persuasively as SANE’s NuVo has time and time again that those who think voting is the answer are the ones living in a dream world. And the dream is an actual nightmare.
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 10:28 AM
Subject: To Mr. McKinney
There is a major difference – a wall of separation if you will – between logical discussion of ideas on the one side, and actual actions (and consequences) on the other. The logic underlying Science/Democracy Reciprocal and the Redirection it points to is impeccable. In fact, I would describe it as brilliant, in as much as a man of my low degree might be capable of judging brilliance. It’s so good, from my point of view, that it frankly scares the Hell out of me.
That being said, I submit for you consideration the proposition that, no matter how clear and demonstrably correct any logical proposition may be, there is and can be no such thing any purely logical accurate predictor of the future behavior of even one human being, let alone any large population of them.
The Science/Democracy Reciprocal and the Redirection logically concludes that a One World governance or government or state is the inevitable and unstoppable doom of America and all of Western Civilization, through an increasingly Open Society fed by voting. While I must accept the reasoning behind it, I do not accept this inevitability. Despair and hopelessness is against my religion.
Now, we could pack up our guns and supplies and take to the hills. Or, we could, to some degree, retreat or submerge into an orthodox Catholic sub-culture, in imitation of the Lefebvre-ites or the Amish or the Hassidic Jews, and we could do all the action things you suggest that we should do. But the fact remains that our form of government is driven by the vote, and when nobody votes, all your other actions are just whistling in the wind.
Nobody voting will lead to exactly what the proponents of NuVo seek to oppose, but it will do it quicker. There ain’t no Utopia. There ain’t no easy way. There ain’t no purely logical solution. SANE is quite correct in what it describes; however, NuVo, universally adopted, can only lead to an end of America as we know it, the Founders knew it, the wider world and history have known it, dictionaries define it, encyclopedias describe it, and as hordes of foreigners seeking to come here think it to be.
What, exactly, would be the result of nobody on Earth ever voting again?
From: Mike McKinney
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 10:56 AM
Subject: doing something
Vic: good. we've made some progress.
But, if we start with the same premise, that voting/speech, is the weapon and basis of all of the Open Society because it is meaningless and incoherent, because it is either science or uncertain dribble, then while you and I both want to do something to save our nation and people, voting at least now is not the thing to do.
I would suggest that if all good minded people in fact took up the NuVo cause, as a turning away from the Redirection, NOT as merely an abdication -- for NuVo is precisely NOT abdication -- we would move this country in a revolutionary way.
As it is there is a move here underway now to go the way Europe has gone to even outlaw a statement that "homosexuality is evil" or that "Islam is an evil religion" on the basis that that can only be "hate speech" because it has no connection to truth.
In this context, there is no "debating" these people. We need to find as many likeminded men and women and live according to the Truth of Existence. That itself will be shocking to those who might be shocked to their senses.
Also, the science-democracy reciprocal is the key. If people understand that properly, as you seem to, there can be no question that voting in a rigged system is worse than futile; it gives aid and comfort to the enemy. It might make you feel better but it is harmful.
I would also not be nearly as cynical as you seem to be about the proper effect of good men living well.
Moreover, do you not see the pattern this country has taken as men get into the voting game? We've merely accelerated the decline. One might even argue that Reagan's push back just brought a bigger swing the other way during the eight years of Clinton. Why would that be? Because Reagan and the Gingrich Republicans buy whole hog into the science-democracy reciprocal. Granted, they are conservative-limited government types, but deep down they accept what ultimately comes to destroy this country and the West.
If you must, let's start a constitutional amendment drive. Let's unwind 200 years of constitutional abuse. Start with the commerce clause, the 14th amendment, the 17th amendment, and the 22nd amendment. if you feel you must be active in the political arena, that would be the only arena that even begins to make sense.
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 10:57 AM
Subject: To Mr. Olszewski
You are quite correct in that the Left would “take up the slack” and win more elections due to all the NuVo-ites abandoning the field. They would certainly win more elections. But note that the ultimate unspoken goal of the Left is a One World State or Global Village anyway. That’s what they want.
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 11:14 AM
Subject: Constitutional Amendment Drive
I like the idea of the Constitutional Amendment Drive. But, by what mechanism are we to amend the Constitution? Is it to involve voting? Or would someone just dictate what’s to be amended?
From: Mike McKinney
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 11:38 AM
Subject: good point
Vic: your point of course points up the problem with even this idea. The bottom line is there are two approaches mentioned in the constitution to amendment and each of these have two options:
The Constitution, then, spells out four paths for an amendment:
 Proposal by convention of states (2/3 of the state legislatures),
ratification by state conventions (3/4 of the states) (never used)
 Proposal by convention of states (2/3), ratification by state legislatures (3/4)(never used)
 Proposal by Congress, ratification by state conventions (used once)
 Proposal by Congress, ratification by state legislatures (used all other times)
We will never get Congress or any Open Society representative body to propose such an amendment. So what to do? All good religious conservatives should reinvoke our federal system. We should all move to the Red States. Abandon the Blue States to the Elite. Push our state legislatures (recall we've Null Voted in all national elections) to call for a convention to return to the original constitution. And we start with my earlier proposal.
That is enough work for a lifetime. But most importantly, the motto must be science-democracy is our death.
I'd get behind this kind of grass roots movement among the religious conservatives. But this means that the leaders of the religious conservatives must come to see what you and I have seen demonstrated here. That is why I suppose SANE begins with its off-campus university seminar program. Now that is where all of our energy ought to be. To help get this program funded and started.
Vic, I'll race you to the check book!
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 11:49 AM
Subject: To Mike
Regarding your earlier statement “ … voting at least now is not the thing to do” (emphasis added) indicates that, for you, NuVo is not a permanent solution. If not now, when?
Also, I wonder if you share the queasy feeling I have that the whole, sole purpose of the NuVo Initiative is to get people like us publicly debating it. If that turns out to be the case, I will be very upset, because I think a lot of people take this very seriously.
I certainly do.
From: Thomas Mann
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 12:13 PM
Subject: my two cents worth
I think the answer about the Null Vote longevity is as long as the Redirection holds. And it seems to me we will know quite clearly when it begins to give up its grip.
On the seriousness of it and "debating", I would think that the whole purpose is not "debating" it. That is what the Elite spend their time doing.
Nuvo is the essence of experiencing the truth of existence. But Vic, you've asked over and over for a To Do item. Mike M. has given that to you. But so has NuVo. We have the seminar program so our young religious conservative leaders can understand what the Elite are preaching at the university. We should be organizing ourselves in communities. If you go at this "digitally" as "solitary beings" then once again we are playing by the reciprocal's rules. We are men. We live in political societies which make distinctions based on political order. Since the US does not, we can in our own smaller community level way do so.
What we need are men of action now, not debaters and commenters. We need people to get behind this SANE proposal to go after the Elite at the university. If we can't protect our young religious people from this influence you can bet there will be no hope. Evangelicals have begun the process of creating such communities.
We need a SANE community and political order.
Vic, if we are correct and living as we ought to, much will affect and effect much else and you'll be surprised what might be possible. But let's start. We ought to set our goal to raise whatever funds are necessary for this seminar.
In this I agree with Mike M. 100%!!!!
From: Mike McKinney
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 12:18 PM
Subject: we're moving
Here, Here!!! TM is in.
That makes two and if Vic is in that makes 3.
Query to SANE: you haven't included the budget for the SANE seminars in the posting. How much is needed? To do this seriously, with staff, travel, material etc. across the country you'd need at least $500K just for the first programs. That is a guess so let's get a SANE Member Fund Raising Drive going.
Vic, I suggest you as the Chair. I travel to much to be much good logistically but I'll help every other way I can.
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 01:33 PM
Subject: Re "We're Moving"
At the current time, our finances are such as to preclude moving our home, attending seminars or even just reaching for the checkbook. I’m in the midst of getting a new business up, running and on a paying basis, and the lion’s share of my attention needs to be concentrated on that endeavor. If circumstances were different, I would not hesitate to be the Chairman, but I think I might fail miserably as a Chair unless the sitter was very small. At any rate, I must keep the wolf away from the door.
Mike, I wonder if you might have missed my earlier comment, that “ … NuVo, universally adopted, can only lead to an end of America as we know it, the Founders knew it, the wider world and history have known it, dictionaries define it, encyclopedias describe it, and as hordes of foreigners seeking to come here think it to be.”
If NuVo is just a temporary thing, then it is a very dangerous temporary tactic. Once you switch people off from voting, however successful that endeavor might be, there exists no certain “on switch” to get them all back, with reinforcements, after losing some really big-time elections. Leftist success only breeds more Leftist success. They mean to change things so they can take charge. And their ultimate goal is exactly what NuVo seeks to avoid: the One World State.
I really do have to get back to work now.
From: Thomas Mann
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 01:49 PM
Subject: are we serious?
Vic: it would seem that if we are serious, we ought to behave seriously.
The America "as you know it"? Which America do you know? The one that embraces science-democracy? The one that embraced universal franchise? The one that democratized the Senate and the Presidency? The one that long ago turned over the constitution to the SCt? The one that abdicated federalism in the name of the commerce clause and "civil rights"?
You are not being consistent at all. We are in a bad way. What was is no more.
Also, you've demanded action items. A whole bunch of us have said quite persuasively that voting is the problem. You then demanded some specific action items. We came up with some. Now you say your too busy? Ok, so don't be the Chair. But if men like you are not willing to work to resist the Redirection outside of your close family and friends, who will?
This is disheartening. If we all have been reduced to people whose political life and order is reduced to "debating" on website comments, we might also be very much a part of the Redirection.
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 03:05 PM
Subject: Quite Seriously, and Quite Consistently
Apparently you didn’t read it either. And you need to read it again. The one the Founders knew was included in the statement. Are you going to tell me that a universal application of NuVo is going to bring back the Republic our Founders knew?
All of your action items are good, worthy, commendable actions, but they still abandon the working election process to bad guys, who can and will undo everything you value just as soon as they assume the power you surrender to them.
Mike, am I to assume from your 11:38 AM post that you might vote in local elections, but not national ones, or am I interpreting too much into your remarks?
Thomas, I don’t know if you guys work for a living or not, but I do. Granted, this is very important; but so is earning a living. Now I really do have to do other stuff.
From: Marty Y
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 03:50 PM
Subject: The const and voting
Vic: what is this thing you have with voting? Voting has gotten us into this mess. When, prior to the Civil War, all voting was done essentially by a given People, a People with a shared world view and understanding of political order, voting was fine. But when you redefine the American People from white, male, Christians, mostly land owners to anyone and everyone with citizenship and then you make things worse by allowing anyone and everyone to come in and then you make things worse by granting amnesty to illegals.
Under Reagan, we had our first real illegal alien amnesty program about which Reagan said: "We have consistently supported a legalization program which is both generous to the alien and fair to the countless thousands of people throughout the world who seek legally to come to America. The legalization provisions in this act will go far to improve the lives of a class of individuals who now must hide in the shadows, without access to many of the benefits of a free and open society. Very soon many of these men and women will be able to step into the sunlight and, ultimately, if they choose, they may become Americans." The conservatives precious Ronald Reagan did not understand the most rudimentary aspect of national existence. Why? Because he too was gripped by the Redirection. But if everybody is a potential citizen, what is America if not the world?
People don't see this and yet now Vic you worry about getting your vote in? You've lost the vote. First get this country back to An American People not some microcosm of world state democracy bursting at the seams and ready to go One World and then we can speak about voting.
From: Mike McKinney
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 03:53 PM
Subject: Ok, I'll vote
I vote for Marty. Well said. Reagan was very very good in many things and very very bad in others. That of course is one of the reasons why he was so popular, aside from his charm, upbeat optimism, and communication skills. He understood the importance of the divine and he understood the importance of limited government and personal responsibility, but these are all general conservative themes. But when it came right down to it, he bought into the universalism of America which is just another way of saying the World State.
From: Thomas Mann
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 03:55 PM
Subject: I'm with you
I second that and cast my vote with Marty. There. We've voted. Everyone feel better?
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 05:26 PM
Subject: On Your Happy Vote
No, I don’t feel better. And I keep getting drawn back here against my will. So, let me see if I’ve got it straight. Our Action Items:
But we are to do all these things while the sole legitimate process of determining who is to govern us all goes on above our heads. Right?
I submit that it might be equally effective to go sit in some corner and just suck our thumbs. If you give up the vote, just what makes you think you will ever get it back again? Do you think it was and is free?
Your so-far purely rhetorical non-violent revolution, if it really gets off the ground, could eventually be forced to turn violent, in a heartbeat. It took a lot of blood to get the vote, and it’s a much, much easier thing to lose than to win.
If you want to “first get this country back to an American people” before worrying about voting, your Red-State, Live-right, Educational Enclave tasks to do that amount to little more than just another silly utopian pipe dream. We have one and only one legitimate government here, and dropping out of the process doesn’t help it. All the things you say to do are great, and needed. But the whole notion of the citizen being sovereign rests, exclusively, on his ability to vote, which you are putting in jeopardy. The election process will not stop and wait for you; it will go on without you, and it will leave you in the dust.
And it might leave me, and the rest of us, in the dust, too. But I won’t go down easy.
From: Thomas Mann
Date: Thu, February 01, 2007, 11:04 PM
Subject: so vote
Vic: So vote! For goodness sakes, vote and keep voting. You've still got most of it right. But at some point you really must ask yourself: to what end?
As to loosing your right to vote, don't fret that. You've lost it effectively now because they give it away to every tom, dick and martino.
You've certainly convinced us that you're never going to stop voting. So you vote for us. In the meantime, I'm trying to figure out where I can find a good Baptist Evangelical community with private schools to move to. And, while I'm at it, I'm going to be the first to sign up for these seminars at SANE.
And, when I am done with that, I might start that grass roots campaign you mention but not for an amendment. To unmask the perniciousness of science.
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Fri, February 02, 2007, 09:24 AM
Subject: Ho hum, heavy sigh, and here we go again.
I think I’ve been quite consistent in my position, ever since I “got it” some time back, with the aid of some of you, and in particular Mr. Yerushalmi’s dissertation right here.
(http://www.saneworks.us/The-Disease-of-ScienceDemocracy-and-its-Diagnosis-article-290-37.htm link taken down.)
But, despite this clear consistency, it seems I am periodically misinterpreted and my statements misconstrued, or perhaps misread, to where the treatment of my remarks ranges from “welcome to the club” to “so go vote and leave us alone,” and with not too much wiggle room between those two extremes. Let me try to be clear.
First, what I accept:
The theory surrounding and describing the Science/Democracy Reciprocal, the Redirection, and the voting-leads-to-an-increasingly Open Society threat. The reasoning is quite tight, and even beautiful, if frightening, in its clarity. It points out a very real threat and danger to America, and even to all orderly society, that needs to be widely recognized and dealt with.
That being said, it is not a crystal ball and it cannot accurately forecast the future. In a similar manner, past voting results, statistics and trend-lines “prove” nothing whatsoever about the future. Statistics and trends can only “prove” the past and the present, and point to a possible but uncertain future trend. A probability, perhaps, but not ever a certainty.
Non-idiot human behavior, at the individual level and more so at the group level, is increasingly unpredictable over time. There are simply too many random external and internal physical and psychological factors involved for anyone to predict what any person or any people will do (or how they might vote) over time with any accuracy at all. Claiming you can do so is tantamount to the weatherman accurately predicting a specific temperature, precipitation, wind direction and force at a specific time at a specific place thirty days out. Or, Gore and friends accurately predicting global climate 10 years out.
Which leads me to what I do not accept:
The NuVo Initiative, basing itself on the Science/Democracy Reciprocal – Redirection theory, insists that it is certain - certain - that all voting will inevitably lead to the World State. That every vote is a wasted vote that only contributes to the problem, and thus, we have “already lost” the vote. That voting, in and of itself, is a bad thing that should be permanently done away with. That any time anyone votes, by that very action, they contribute to the movement to the World State.
Now, you cannot hold to this absolute certainty about voting and its relationship to the future without holding to other “absolute certainties” regarding the future, such as, to know with certainty:
If you are absolutely certain of all these future things, and more, then you are right, no one should ever vote again, and our Constitution should be flushed. I submit that you do not and you cannot possibly know any of these things with any certainty at all. Nor can you be certain that all voting everywhere always and inevitably leads to the World State.
From my earliest discussions I have sought to find out precisely how SANE sought to return us, as near as possible, to our original Republic, most especially without using the vote, and have received no credible reply. From my earliest discussions I have sought to find out what governmental mechanism is to be a replacement for the NuVo-despised and demonized Democracy, and received no credible response at all. It seems to me that the most likely possible result of no one on Earth ever voting again is – guess what – the World State.
The only two possible chinks I have seen so far in the all-voting-is-always-evil NuVo armor have appeared in this particular discussion, and they are:
This ain’t some minor little debate, guys. What you do affects me, and all of us, and therefore I’m not going away. I’m not asking for action items, or how to behave, or how to be an activist. I’m looking for alternative forms of government after this one is gone. Or, realistic mechanisms for bringing the old one back. NuVo is intent on taking Democracy out of the picture, permanently. Since Democracy underlies Republicanism, I’m just asking one very simple question, and it is this: After you’ve killed off all Democracy and all voting everywhere,
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Fri, February 02, 2007, 12:01 PM
Subject: Hypothetical Future Argument
let’s play a little game. It is now ten years into the future, and you – the NuVo Initiative aficionado, hereinafter referred to as NuVo Guy, are having a gentlemanly discussion with – a Government Representative, supported by voters, hereinafter referred to as Govt Guy.
NuVo Guy: Well, things are looking better now due to our not voting, grass-roots activism and living right, and so we’re ready to return to the voting process in the next election.
Govt Guy: You voluntarily forfeited your right to vote ten years ago. Not only that, but you publicly encouraged many others to do the same. You no longer deserve the right to vote; you are unworthy of the right to vote. You are no longer legally allowed to vote. We passed a law about that awhile back.
NuVo Guy: I didn’t forfeit it; I just didn’t take advantage of it.
Govt Guy: Too bad. We have a law.
NuVo Guy: You’re a government Representative; can’t you do something for my cause?
Govt Guy: You voluntarily rejected your right to Representative Government ten years ago. Not only that, but you publicly encouraged many others to do the same. You no longer deserve Representative Government. You are unworthy of access to Representative Government. Our Court interpreted a new Constitutional Principle about that awhile back. You can only come to me for redress of grievances if you are an illegal alien.
NuVo Guy: So what am I to do?
Govt Guy: Shut up and get on the cattle car.
From: Thomas Mann
Date: Fri, February 02, 2007, 02:08 PM
Vic: two things.  We are not Null Voting because it "leads" to something but because it IS the something. That something is the reciprocal. It stands for that as long as the American people are no longer a people but an open society of "citizens" who share civil and human rights with the world.  Now to you "game". You haven't noted that I and others here have said that if we are successful to turn away from the Redirection and turn back to Peoplehood, voting for representative government will find its expression as a constitutional mechanism toward representative government. But that means that we would as a People have rejected the idea that we vote on everything as method because there is no truth. It would mean that the Truth of Existence is experienced by a unique American People and the voting we be as it was originally.
You game fails and your consistent worry about "losing" the vote is a non sequitor because if we've lost the vote as Americans within an American national people it will mean the Elite have already moved to the World State stage. But assuming we have moved back to what makes us a People and we constitute a People, we'll be just fine. It is certainly possible that groups previously franchised will have lost the franchise but the American people as such will not have done so.
Voting itself as an act of representative government is not a bad thing UNLESS it is an expression of the reciprocal. If voting is limited to legitimate expressions of representative government within a unique and homogenous People, it is not necessarily a bad thing. One must be on guard of course that it be converted and perverted to what it is today. This is the inherent flaw in our own constitutional system as founded. If there hadn't been a flaw, we wouldn't be where we are today. Granted, no political order is a perfect shield against a fall from order; men are men. Especially given the domination science has in the world of men's affairs. But if we get to where we need to get, and men experience the Truth of Existence within their political order, voting within that context as a limited affair for representatives representing a unique and particular people is more akin to the system our founders established than anything that exists today.
From: Vic Biorseth
Date: Fri, February 02, 2007, 03:23 PM
Now we’re getting somewhere. I’m not sure NuVo would agree with what you just said, but it’s the first time I’ve heard from this quarter a clear statement that any citizen voting at all might have an American future, shaky though it may be.
… if we are successful to turn away from the Redirection and turn back to Peoplehood, voting for representative government will find its expression as a constitutional mechanism toward representative government. But that means that we would as a People have rejected the idea that we vote on everything as method because there is no truth. It would mean that the Truth of Existence is experienced by a unique American People and the voting we be as it was originally.
But these words immediately raises three questions:
I’m greatly encouraged by an outright statement, however unofficial, that the NuVo Initiative might one day actually embrace Democracy, which means that our Republic actually has a chance of survival.
Voting itself as an act of representative government is not a bad thing UNLESS it is an expression of the reciprocal. If voting is limited to legitimate expressions of representative government within a unique and homogenous People, it is not necessarily a bad thing.
These words, of course, raise some more questions. Who, in any enclave, determines what constitutes a unique and homogenous People? What if that determination doesn’t agree with the determination of the enclave next door, or across the State, or across the Nation? Is it not possible that all these individually homogenous enclaves might not be collectively homogenous, and might constitute yet another form of Balkanization of Americans?
… and men experience the Truth of Existence within their political order, voting within that context as a limited affair for representatives representing a unique and particular people is more akin to the system our founders established than anything that exists today.
Nothing could be more desirable. It’s getting there that’s the rub.
Perfection is not of this world but the next. The original system was not perfect. The existing system is not perfect. Your proposed system will not be perfect. The future system, whatever it is, will not be perfect. My argument is that we should work within the sole legitimate Representative system we are presented with, what was handed on to us, and we should strive to hand it on in a better form. And, as we shall probably soon see, I strongly suspect that NuVo just flat out opposes Democracy, period.
From: David Wyatt
Date: Thu, February 08, 2007, 01:53 PM
Subject: NuVo #12
Take heart! You are not Alone!
This One was closely following your discussion. How refreshing to know someone has a working knowledge of Federalist #10. It makes One appreciate the effort and thought of the Founding Fathers.
In that line, those who would subvert the system for their own ends have done so, one need only to look around.
To recognize that there is a problem (understatement) speaks much of Us, and is the first step in finding a solution. You are commended for that.
This One was also drawn to this site for its insistence on civility and frank discussion of the issues at hand.
Be Secure in Your State! There are Others!
And that's where it ended.
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Converted Page to SBI! Release 3.0 BB 2.0.
Note: On re-reading this while converting it, the only possible conclusion from all of it is that NuVo opposed representative government without openly stating what form of unrepresentative government it favored. Monarchy, perhaps?
Date: Sat Dec 13 2014
From: Vic Biorseth
Changes pursuant to changing the website URL
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Pulled the trigger on the 301 MOVE IT option June 1, 2014. Working my way through all the webpages. .
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General Commentary Pages.
Various unrelated topics that stirred thought and provoked writing at one time or another.
Nationalizing Catholicism: Introducing the Democratholic Church of America. While we have been off worrying about our own government suppressing our religion, Party Politics has been quietly infiltrating the Church and turning it into a Government Agency.
Addressing Original Intent in Law, and Original Revelation's Intent in Doctrine. "Original Intent" is the intention of the authors when any Bill was signed into law. "Revealed Truth" is God's Law.
Satanic Unreason in Modern Liberal Thought. Satanic Unreason, Unreality and Insanity rule the Left, in philosophy, theology, material science, mathematics, politics, psychology, you name it.
Can we, in our majority, even recognize the diabolical any more? Are we all so busy and so hypnotized by the world that Satan and all his evil works are the absolute farthest things from our minds?
Real Truth Always Demands Division; Evil Always Demands Unity. It's Truth v Anti-Truth; Right v Wrong; Virtue v Vice; Life v Death. Gimme that old time Division.
Proselytizing v Evangelizing: What's the difference? Is there a difference? It's a very thin line between between Proselytizing and Evangelizing, so why is the one condemned and the other commended?
American Grounding: Citizen Equality, Life, Liberty, Property. Returning to our original American grounding means returning to the sure guidance of Natural Law and to our Judaeo-Christian social moral norms and civil law.
You can't keep Islamic Assassins out if they're already in. When suicidal Jihadists and Islamic assassins are already infiltrated into the ranks, the ranks are looking for terrorists in all the wrong places.
Obama Unleashed: Doing all the destabilization he can do. Trump's win upset Obama's global plan; Obama Unleashed is laying mines and firing torpedoes and missiles behind him on his way out the door.
Induced "Black Privilege" and Racist Anti-White Anti-Americanism. How Marxist-induced "Multiculturalism" actually alienates and splits us all apart while pretending to unite us all together.
The Latin Mass Readings for Midnight Mass. It is always good to meditate on the appropriate readings ahead of time, before praying the Mass.
The Anti-Authoritarian Rage at Losing Their Authoritarian Power. On the Authoritarian Rage of the Global Ruling Class upon being Over-Ruled: Pure Insanity, Pure Evil, or Both?
On the Unrecognized War being waged against Human Civilization. The Unrecognized War against Culture is not merely being waged against Nations, and not merely against Nature, but against God.
Godel's Incompleteness Theorem: Mathematizing Faith in God? Finding a rational and logical explanation for Natural Human Intuition. (Things we know but cannot prove.)
Shared Divinity? Can man somehow "share" divinity with God? This "Shared Divinity" concept might be way too big for my limited intellectual capacity, but my heart is trying it on for size.
The Religion-Political Parallels in America's rise, and in her decline. Boldly speaking about the taboo subjects of religion and politics is what this DIVISIVE and INTERACTIVE website was born to do.
Another Marxist "Catholic Spring"? Yawn. So what else is new? Breaking News: A Catholic Springtime of Revolution. Well, ho hum, heavy sigh and here we go again.
Political Parties = Political Denominationalism = Diversity in Patriotism. Denominationalism varies Revealed Truth; Political Parties vary Constitutional Meaning.
Join the Catholic Resistance, and wage Guerilla warfare against Evil. Catholic Resistance to Evil means personal sacrifice. It means continually evangelizing, even when and where evangelization is not welcome.
America's Chief Mortal Enemy: ISIS? Iran? N. Korea? Russia? China? No. America's Mortal Enemy Number 1 is Comrade Obama (peace be upon him) and his whole Marxocrat Party.
Holy Hatred: Can we hate evil and still be Christian? "Do you renounce Satan, and all his evil works?" That is a yes or no question.
Has George Soros now become a Pope Maker? Elizabeth Yore (at Remnant) unveils very strong connections between top George Soros surrogates and Pope Francis.
Is Practical Atheism leading us all into a New World Order? Practical Atheists, who are nominal or non-practicing "believers" who live lives exactly as if they were atheists, belong to Practical Atheism.
Feeding Racial Paranoia and Social Chaos for Pure Political Profit. Politically inflaming racial paranoia and blind hatred of whites and cops, solely for the political benefit of the REAL racist Party.
Saying it in pictures: When words alone cannot get through. We've been warning about anti-American politics for years in words; but there is now a rich library of internet graphics that may say it better, for some.
On the Managed Decline of Western Populations, and of the Church. The Contraceptive Mentality also brings about the Managed Decline of World Economies, because, only Free People produce New Wealth.
Banishment: Could it rid America of her domestic mortal enemies? On establishing Banishment as a penalty for working to destroy Constitutional America.
Making the Kill Shot, versus Hesitation: On winning or losing the battle. Hesitation at pulling the trigger means failing to make the kill shot, and each time, it may have been your last chance.
America's Deadly Dichotomy: Christian Virtue versus Political Corruption. Culture=Religion+Politics, true enough. But self-government demands high virtue, and politics are naturally corrupting.
Rigged Primaries, Rigged Election, Rigged Coverage, Rigged Political Parties. What should we expect, with an elitist "Establishment Club" running the News, running the Parties and running all three branches of government completely outside the Constitution?
Islamic American Constitutionalists? Who love America and hate Jihad? Really? Well, that's what they say. Maybe we should just wait and see if they kill any more of us.
Our American National Identity Crisis: Who Are We? First, You Must Address Your Personal Identity Crisis: Who Are You?
Progressive Evil: Bringing on Spiritual and Cultural Death, inch by inch. All Progressives, whether Marxist Progressives or mere dupes and tools of Marxism, advance evil at the expense of good.
The Marxocrat Party Media and Crazy Bernie, who was in on the scheme. Why all the surprise? Parties ALWAYS rig elections. And I knew the Marxocrat Party Media favored Communism over America way back in 1959.
Ad Orientum: Facing East, or, facing the New Altar? Liturgical battle lines. Originally, to be Oriented meant to be facing the Orient, to the East, toward Jerusalem. Today, Mass said ad orientum means facing the Tabernacle.
Who's in Heaven? Catholics. How do we know? The Bible says so. Scripture, Tradition and consistent Church teaching down through the ages confirms it: In Heaven, there are no non-Catholics.
Trafeze: Taking WebSite Business where Uber is taking the Taxi Business. Trafeze is now up and running. It solves the "Product/Market Fit" business problem for on-line solo entrepreneurs. This is made for us.
Religious Conversation in America, socially stifled and anathematized. Other than bland platitudes, "Moments Of Silence" and "Thoughts and Prayers", politicians, journalists, celebrities and everyone in the public eye avoids religion.
Sustainable, Shlamaimable. "Sustainability" is an unsustainable argument. We don't sustain the earth, or even ourselves. The only thing unsustainable is the sustainability premise itself.
Unforgivable Sin meets the Wideness of God's Mercy. What happens when laxity in the clergy and the whole culture "accommodates" even blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
Ruling Class Liars: Marxist ends-justify-the-means liars using Taqiyya against us. Ruling Class Liars telling the world about the "Social Justice" of Marxism and the "Religion of Peace" of Islam.
The Individual Human Dignity of Christianity versus the Collectivism of Marxism. Is Individual Human Dignity justified? Is the Individual a God-Image, or just another utilitarian droplet in the Atheistic Marxist Revolutionary Wave?
Our Anti-American Government, defending our enemies, opposing us. The Obamunist Regime and the Marxocrat Party act like Defense Attorneys for Islam, Marxism and Immorality, and like Prosecuting Attorneys of White Christian Heterosexual Men.
The Great Global Deception: "Death of a thousand cuts" applied to Civilization. The Global Deception is Machiavellian-ism applied by inches, in which the "Revolution" never quite comes, because the Target Institution destroys itself.
Bible Christians: More Biblical than Catholics? No. Not by a long shot. Bible Christians all think their "church" is Bible-based; but the Bible is Catholic-based. The Word produced the Church, and then the Church produced the Bible.
On the Mythical Conservative Movement of the Republicrat Party. Conservative Movement? What Conservative Movement? There ain't no Conservative Movement.
Catholic Resistance: Church Militant's Grass Roots Movement. We've got to start somewhere. Join the Resistance, form your local units and lets get it on.
PC Speech Control Versus the Sin of Detraction. Calumny is harming someone via a lie. Detraction is harming someone via an unnecessarily spoken truth. PC Speech Control is the absolute elimination of free speech.
So, Trump is The Man, and Cruz is out. Now what? Trump's nomination to be the Republicrat Party Candidate appears to be sealed. So what's a Cruz supporter to do?
How Infected Evangelism Itself Helps to Destroy Christian Faith. When unrepentant active sinners and Protestants alike are welcomed into the Church, who is Evangelizing whom?
On Faith, Doubt, Skepticism, Cynicism and Evil. On the Skeptic's problem with faith, the Cynic's problem with Truth, and the logical problem with Boundless, Unlimited Mercy.
On the importance of real authority in the world; does culture need authority? It always turns out that those who are most publicly opposed to all authority secretly seek to become super-authoritarian themselves.
Suffering Computer Withdrawal is like withdrawal from any other addiction. When you are suddenly stopped from computer access, terrible chemical reactions overwhelm your psyche.
Conservatism is now so divided and splintered as to be a meaningless term. When everyone in America who is not a Marxist is a Conservative, there is no such thing as Conservatism.
How Evil and Godless Marxism promotes Universal Unification with Barbarity. Obamunism and Marxocrat Partyism and One-Big-Religionism would "Bring Us All Together", in a Universal Unification, with Satan.
Civil Jihad = War by Immigration; Cultural Marxism = Revolution by Education. Civil Jihad is like Cultural Marxism: Civil Jihad is War waged by Immigration, and Cultural Marxism is Revolution waged by Education.
It's 2016 Primary Voting Day; when the polls open I'll be there. I've made my picks and, for me, it's do-or-die day for the American Republic.
Authority never applied is assumed by others, as the Default Authority of Evil. Legitimate Authority Unexercised becomes the Illegitimate Default Authority of those Legitimately Subject to it.
How to Vote in the Primary to Avoid Holding Your Nose in the General. The Primary Election in Your State is your Only Opportunity to Vote Your Choice. Your Party would prefer that you vote THEIR Choice.
Millions are Converting to Scientism, the "IN" Religion of the 21st Century. Converting to Scientism, because, well, just thinking about all them there Absolute Facts We Wouldn't Even Know, if it wasn't for Scientism, will make you downright dizzy.
Billboard America v Real America, and Billboard Catholicism v Real Catholicism. Advertising is Propaganda. Political Advertising is conquering America, and now, it's conquering the Church, too.
Praying for a smaller, stronger, moral nation under our Unifying Constitution. After division and winnowing, a converted, committed American remnant may gather under our Unifying Constitution.
On Obama's Gun Grabbing Lies, supporting his destruction of the Constitution. Obama's Whoppers typify the Marxist rule for lies: Make the lie so big, shocking and unbelievable that it will actually be believed.
How Spineless Acquiescence to the sins of friends and family destroys us. Failure to oppose wrong gets harder and harder to do the longer it is not done. Spineless Acquiescence to Evil is smiling your way into hell.
"Secularized Reason" is Reason divorced from Faith, which is Amoral Nonsense. Secularized Reason is not merely Amoral, or simply Morally Neutral; it always comes to oppose all sense of any fixed cultural morality.
America's current Anti-Constitution Constitutional Government. All three current branches knowingly violate the Constitution that created them, provided their rules and set their limits.
Rethinking War on Islam: War on "parts" of Islam, or, Unlimited War. Rethinking War on Islam may mean a perpetual state of war, for Islam's evil cannot be separated out.
Reconciliation with God, through a good Confession with Absolution. Repentance, resolve, confession, absolution, penance, and uplifting, EXHILARATING Reconciliation.
Gay Marriage: What the hell is gay about it? It isn't Gay Marriage, it's Homosexual Marriage. If you surrender the language you lose.
"We are not the World Police" say the Lefties. So, if not us, then who? In the absence of Police, including World Police, what happens? The criminals come out to play.
Do we have an Anti-American President? A Pro-Islam, Anti-Christian,
Redistributionist, Utopian, Pro-Illegal Alien, quite consistently Anti-American, President Obama?
The Three Big Ideas competing in global geopolitics today. The Three Big Ideas, and a Fourth one: aggressive, militant atheism, or secularism.
World War III is beginning, and the Big News is the "News"? The world is tumbling into global war, but Journalism is all atwitter about Brian Williams. Go figure.
Babbling Christianity: The Loss of Unity in the Christian Message. Is some New Testament "Tower of Babble" moment behind babbling Christianity's ever increasing disunity?
Obama Lies Again. So what else is new? "My work is done here; Hi-Yo Silver, and Away!" ... Who was that Masked Marxist?
On the lost human virtue of Industry. From Industry to Indolence: how the most industrious nation in history has slipped into almost pure sloth.
Another Obama act of Treason? Well, ho-hum, heavy sigh and here we go again. He lives for Treason. Bringing Constitutional America down is his whole purpose for being.
All the anti Capitalist lies in Marxist propaganda. Most old Marxist anti-Capitalist lies are now common "academic truths" in formal education and news reporting.
Why is our whole culture going to pot? It's our morality, stupid. Every cultural thing - law, order, decency, indecency, salvation, damnation - hangs on a recognized cultural morality.
The Truth about Islam, finally, in a homily at Mass. You never hear the unvarnished truth about Islam, or other evils, from Catholic clerics. Maybe that's finally changing.
Presenting the Renamed Reintroduction of Thinking-Catholic-Strategic-Center. The conversion to the Catholic American Thinker name is now complete.
War Begets War: It's About Islam; It Always Was. Undoing Islamic Lies of "Peaceful" Moslem Propagandizers.
Undoing Evil: Unraveling the sly "Good Intentions" destroying the West. Undoing Evil means reversing Political Correctness and Amorality, and returning to Pure Meritocracy.
The argument within Islam, and about Islam, regarding the true nature of Islam. The true nature of Islam: Ron Paul, King Saud, Ali Khamenei, Comrade Obama, all have their versions.
Letter to an American Warrior, from an old American Citizen, with Love. An old man's advice to a young man, sent in a letter to an American Warrior.
All the Unintended Consequences: What makes us think they were unintended? If every single thing done by someone has unintended consequences, the consequences were intended.
The French Islamophobia: Was it real? Or is Islam really something to be feared? If the French Islamophobia turns out to have been warranted, what about ours?
You're gonna hold their feet to the fire? What fire? They're laughing at you. You can't hold Republicrat's feet to the fire. They are the fireproof new political nobility.
What would War on Islam look like? Would victory even be possible? With what successful overall strategy could we wage war on an ideology?
On the Anti-Church metastasizing within the Roman Catholic hierarchy. The anti-Church within the Church: the anti-Papal agenda advancing even in the Vatican itself.
The Required Radical American Re-Revolution. Or, Re-Constitution.It took 100+ years to radicalize Constitutional America. It will take a radical re-revolution to bring it back to sanity.
On the "inevitability" of a Perfect Global Government in a "New World Order". Is this "New World Order" idea divinely inspired, or is it the ongoing work of Satan?
The Judas Complex: How a traitor may not recognized his own treason. The Judas Complex explains how Judas Iscariot - like many a modern day Bishop - compromised with the world.
Christmas 2014: Hope is Reborn; Salvation has come into the world. The Christmas 2014 Turning Point: The Kingdom is upon us; our King is among us.
On Theory Dominating Substance, in science, religion, morality, and culture. Everywhere we look, we see the theoretical trumping the substantial, up and down the line.
A Personal Relationship with Jesus Christ deepens faith and faith commitment. A Personal Relationship with America deepens love of country and patriotic commitment.
The 2014 Mid-Term Elections Cometh: Here we go again. Next Tuesday, the 2014 Mid-Term Elections are upon us. What are we going to do about it?
Anathematizing anathema: the predictable result of the denial of evil. In a world that denies the existence of evil, anathematizing anathema itself is the only anathema allowed.
The Ebola Setup: Another possible trigger for the final revolution? The purposeful government infection of America, through the Ebola setup. Why?
Work at home jobs that have had me. A long, costly and unsuccessful run at work from home jobs that didn't work for us.
Truth versus Agenda addresses the simplest of problems greatly complexified. Truth versus Agenda examines the contest between reality and its opposition.
Vic has Iron Weights for sale; Mama says they have to go. Lots of iron weights for sale; all have to go at once, in one sale.
The challenge describes Capitalism as illusory and Marxism as solid. The mixture of religion just adds to the confusion of all good realists.
Indifferentism and Moral Relativism eats away at Catholic Culture. Catholicism stands against Indifferentism. Where do you stand?
My poor old truck is again starting to look like a poor old truck. After half-a-million miles, we're now approaching another decision time; another paint job, or a new truck.
Battle Line: Where the advancing secular army meets Judaeo-Christian moral norms. The Secular Position (or Agenda) involves Proactive, Aggressive Anti-Theism, and not merely "neutral" Atheism.
A return to the American Ideal means a severe reduction in Government. To return to positive growth and progress means, necessarily, purging our nation from all Marxist-Socialist philosophical influence and a return to the American Ideal.
Why this hatred of Palin? What galls modern women of the Left about Sarah Palin? The blind hatred of Palin we’re seeing expressed is not merely because of hatred and intolerance of the pro-life religious moral standard.
A Palin Parker Ticket? My Dream Candidates for 2012. Why a Palin Parker ticket is better than any professional politician Republican ticket you can come up with for 2012.
Elitism Vs Palinism: Why the Left and the Elites Loath and Fear Sarah Palin. It isn’t just Marxism Vs Palinism; it’s also established intellectual elitism vs Palinism. The elite need someone to look down upon.
How is it that opposing amnesty for millions of illegal aliens is "arrogant"? If my pro-Catholic, pro-American, anti-alternative-ethos position is "arrogant," then, exactly what is the position of those who claim superiority or even equality with it?
Here we see Bush family class captured in a simple private citizen’s photo. George W. (and Mrs.) Bush quietly demonstrate Bush family class without hoopla or fanfare.
Marxists love crisis, and they love an oil spill crisis most of all. Marxists even create and drive crisis. Their favorite crisis of all must be the Oil Spill Crisis, which is even better than a Banking Crisis.
American Military Assault Weapons originally intended in the 2nd Amendment. To miss the point of the 2nd Amendment is to miss the point of the whole Constitution.
For God and Country – More Thoughts on America, and on National Existence. For God and Country: Comparisons of martyrdom and heroism, Sovereign Nationhood Vs. Internationalism, distinct people-hood Vs. the Global Village, and Godliness Vs. godlessness.
The Godless Left leads the young and naive to their utopian Hell. For an honest comparison of the effects on youth, we need to look to the history of the Godless Left versus the Religious Right.
The Rabbi Meir Kahane Open Letter to the World is a must read. No decent world history course is complete without the Rabbi Meir Kahane Open Letter to the World.
Aleksandr I.Solzhenitsyn warns the American Worker and American organized labor. Solzhenitsyn speaks to us as a worker from the “Worker’s Paradise” of Communism; words of warning for all who understand the meaning of the word Liberty.
World Revolution returns with a vengeance: the rebirth of Marxism. Marxist world revolution returns, and faces far less opposition than in 1848 or the period between the Great Wars.
Our argument against public despair, hopelessness and pessimism re the future. Despair is a mortal sin, the opposite of the virtue of hope; it is a sin unto the death of the soul, a repudiation and rejection of God’s grace.
On Threats to America's National Existence. A look at the nature of our national existence, what makes us America, physical threats to that, and the possibility of just going out of existence.
On the ethics of language: English dictionary Vs. Political-Correctness taboos. Language evolves, yet morals are (or should be) fixed. This poses questions re the ethics of language.
Thinking Catholic direction: threats to America, Church, Ethos, even History. The Thinking Catholic Direction is multi-faceted, facing threats to American National Existence, Catholic Liturgy, our common Guiding Ethos - emphasis changes to meet the threat of the moment.
Catholics learn and practice Glossalalia, in the Life In The Spirit seminars. Life in the Spirit seminars, fueling the Catholic Charismatic renewal, bring tongue-speaking "Glossalalia" and being "Slain in the Spirit", into Catholicism.
The website is going on hold for at least the next five weeks. Business calls, and I must respond. Will be traveling, and not taking the laptop this time.
Current Website Status. Still too busy for individual responses to questions, comments & criticisms.
Our 2006 Ohio Voter Guide. The choices are quite clear, and the 2006 Ohio Voter Guide was easy to produce
On carrying my Lord, Jesus Christ, in my pocket. As a Eucharistic Minister, I am on occasion carrying the Lord Jesus in my pocket. It's a wondrous thing.
A 2006 Christmas and Hanukkah wish. May the Holy Days we celebrate remind us all of who we are, and how we are different from other peoples.
Current Democratic Party platform reveals anti-Semitic streak among Liberals. In their voting, their speechifying, and in the slant of their controlled mainstream media reporting, the current Democratic Party Platform is made clear to all observers.
The "Left", and The DaVinci Code, The Passion, and Cartoons of Mohammed. You can tell a lot about a movement by its public words. The Passion? "Unreservedly Bad." The DaVinci Code? "Unreservedly Good." Anything to do with Islam? "No Comment."
Who's driving the Health Care bus? Health insurance companies grading doctors? Health insurance companies grading doctors: a legitimized conflict of interest. A preparatory step toward the nationalization of the health insurance industry?
On the forced use of medical boiler plate language rather than simple notes. The "little dictators" from insurance companies and government bureaucracies force MDs to use stilted, verbose, medical boiler plate language in their own documentation.
Home For Christmas 2008. Website Getting Active Again.
Hydrogen power could be, and should be, the wave of our automotive future.Any move toward hydrogen power is a move toward a cleaner and more efficient fuel, and away from our dangerous dependency on oil.
Thoughts in remembrance of 09/11/2001, five years later. The changing shape of the war, the changing shape of the enemy.
The Jewish Shabbat. Description of Jewish Shabbat (Sabbath) from my Holy Land item supplier.
Kerry lies again, and then lies about his lies, in concert with the SLIMC.There he goes again! Kerry lies again and again about American servicemen and veterans; he just can't help himself.
Kerry's Lies: The Old, Vietnam-Era Anti-War Chickens are Comming Home to Roost. POW Lawsuit Could Force Kerry To Come Clean - by George "Bud" Day, Chairman, Vietnam Veterans Legacy Foundation.
What's going on with Mel Gibson? Is he really an anti-Semite?I am surprised that Mel Gibson is an alcolholic. But I am never surprised at any words that come out of the mouth of any drunk.
Still Worrying Over NuVo Consequences. The Holidays have gone by, several days have passed, and the SANE NuVo Initiative still stands pat.
The Dem's October Surprise involves another flip-flop of their public "standard" The clearly pro-sodomy Party that openly seeks the "Gay" vote goes Victorian for another pre-election October Surprise ploy.
Some Problems with NuVo: the so-called Null-Vote Initiative. A "philosophical" movement aimed at keeping religious conservatives from voting? Seriously? Let me state my problems with NuVo.
Come, let us sit and reason together. Jews and Christians of various stripe and spot can say to each other, 'Come, let us sit and reason together.' But we can't do that with the Moslems.
Regarding SANE works dropping NuVo: Nul Vote Initiative dies with a whimper. If you can't really present a good argument, sit down. On SANE Works dropping the NuVo Initiative: a program that works hard to SOUND pro-American while ACTING to oppose American National Existence.
Even experts grossly underestimate the Marxist zeal of the American Left. The sharp Left turn happened in the Hoover-FDR era, and the Marxism of the American Left has been deepening ever since.
Thinking American, in a nutshell: When one has lots to say, but time is limited. The older I get, the busier I get. Answering multiple questions as a thinking American, but in a hurry.
"We are an Easter People, and Hallelujah is our Song." (John Paul the Great). Our absolutely unique and singular Easter story, and the incredible force with which it struck human history.
Witnessing, grieving and weeping for our dieing culture. What might it take to call a whole people back from the brink of cultural death?
If we have an inherent right to something, then, who must supply it? Rights and Responsibilities exist in paired sets; a right does not exist in the absence of a related responsibility. If indeed we have a right to our job, then, someone must provide it. Who?
So how come we have all these homeless people if our system is so great? The strong "Utopian Idealist" firmly believes that absolute worldly perfection is actually possible. Therefore, there should never be any such thing as a hungry or homeless person.
Taking a look at Illegal Immigration and Tax Problem solutions. In our view, the minimum wage and income tax have outlived their usefulness, and only contribute to the illegal alien problem.
First journal / blog entries when the thinking catolic blog first opened up. Notes to readers about what I was doing.
On-going WebSite work and planned WebPages as of 09/07/2006 Adding items to book store.
Vic's busted finger status - life goes on. Another busted finger status report, since the original one rolled off of the 50-entry BLOG update records.
Website Status as of 02/05/2009. No more Bookstore; no more Contact Me; no more complexity.
Website Status 03-09-2009. Just a note to bring you up to date on website status 03-09-2009.
Website Status 04/06/2009. Busy driving daily now; most website work will be weekend and as available.
The Plastic Bags and Eco Doom theory: will plastic bags end life as we know it? Plastic Bag and Eco Doom predictions tell us that plastic grocery and garbage bags will still be buried in the land fills and dumps a thousand years from now. Well … so what?
Farewell Smokey Biorseth; Rest In Peace. Hello Coal Biorseth; Welcome Home. As we were laying our beloved Smokey Biorseth to rest in his grave beside the lilies, a carbon-copy of Smokey, in younger form, emerged from the lilies.
Honky Biorseth really runs this house. If you want to know what's in any cabinet in the house, just ask Honky Biorseth.
Kill the illegal alien marketplace, and illegal aliens will leave on their own. Why should we "imagine" life with no Mexico? Shouldn't the Mexicans be trying to imagine life without the USA?
More Marxist infiltration of higher education. Public school and the media are not the only places dominated by Marxist thought; even Catholic institutions are infected.
Of Families and Fortunes, and Inheritance Vs. Redistribution. Families and Fortunes are despised by Marxists, because Marxism demonizes the family, demonizes fortunes, and even demonizes profit.
Website Status Update 11/09/10 Just a Website status update; where we are and where we’re going.
Regarding the 2010 Tax Deal Pledge Breaker: Pledge? What Pledge? How can Republican deal makers even face us? We need to hang a Tea Party target on all professional politicians for 2012.
Pray for peace in Jerusalem, and for deliverance of Israel from harm. To pray for peace in Jerusalem is to pray for deliverance from Obama.
A tale of Promised Financial Melt-Down Debt Ceiling Nonsense and Happy Marxists. Everyone, on both sides, believes the Debt Ceiling Nonsense. Why?
God and Nature: on the Nature of Things, established by the Creator of Things. God and Nature: on man’s Perversion of the Nature of Things, even with the best of intentions.
Our Ohio voter Guide for the 2012 Election. The 2l012 Ohio Voter Guide – The Choices Have Never Been Clearer, or more critical.
Evangelization enters the animal kingdom with the first bear prayer. It is fitting that the first bear prayer would be a prayer of thanksgiving.
Is the Internet down in Lithuania? Sudden loss of Lithuanian traffic suggests the internet is down in Lithuania.
The rise of the Femi Nazi Green Beret, and the decline of military victory. The first Femi Nazi Green Beret will be awarded out of fairness, not excellence.
Food Insurance: Is this stuff really any good? All of us conspiracy-theorizing, global-calamity doomsday-preppers need their Food Insurance.
We just had to try to do Robert Irvine's Plastic Wrapped Baby Back Ribs. Put plastic wrapped baby back ribs in the oven? What? Are you nuts?
Thoughts on the first Eucharist, established by the Last Supper. The first Eucharist was recognized by the Apostles for what it was on that holiest Holy Thursday.
Get behind these Tea Party Candidates. The Constitution is not going to be restored to legal preeminence unless we replace leadership incumbents of BOTH PARTIES.
Ecce homo; Behold the man. Ecce Homo. Behold the Innocent Lamb, who takes away the sins of the world.
When your system slows down or hangs, it's time for a Total System Reboot. America, the World, and even the Catholic Church may need a Total System Reboot.
Supernatural Genesis 1-11 vs. Pagan Darwinism God and Liberty or Fallen Mankind and Tyranny
Luke 21: 29-31: Some Signs Of America’s Abandonment And Spiritual Bondage
Eternal Paradise Or Hell? How And Why Both Choices Are Freely Made
Luciferian Humanists: Citing the Genesis Account is Evil “Any country grounded in Judaeo-Christian values can’t be overthrown until those roots are cut … "
Who Is Intolerant Because Ashamed: Creationists or Evolutionary Theists?
Death of the Christian God in Hearts of All Humans Why America and W. Europe are Committing Suicide
THE WORLDVIEW OF EVIL SPIRITS - an article by Linda Kimball MAGICAL MYSTERY CHURCH
Pagan-Darwinian-Materialism Redoubt of Miserable Self-Deceived Non-Self Nihilists
Americas’ Spiritually Dead, Deep State and Ruling Class Nihilists Walking Dead Parasitic Idolaters
Doctrines of Demons and the Modern Pagan and Pantheist Antithesis The West's Greatest Threat
Gnosis: The Main Expression of Paganized Christianity in the New Age Inner Knowing, Self-Salvation
Our Age of Malicious Perversion How Truth, Meaning, and Reality Have Been Perverted
The Serpent’s Gnostic Luciferian Elite Oligarchy and Global Powers Demonic Darkness Over the West and America
The Creation Model Versus Modern Pagan Models
2 Corinthians 10:5
What Kind of God Do You Believe In?
2 Cor. 10:5 Destroying 'Scientific' Arguments for False Gods
Evil Spirits, Death of God, Satanic Inversion Pagan America’s Reality of Madness, Demonic Bondage, and Non-Self
Judgment and Wrath The Biblical Explanation for Madness and Evil
The Worldview of Evil Spirits Revolution, Evolution, Materialism, Nihilism, New World Order, and More
Gnosis The Main Expression of Modern Paganized Christianity
America's Transformation Into A Mystical Pantheist God-State What the Death of God Has Wrought
Message to All Wearied Truthtellers: Let Isaiah Be Your Inspiration the Remnant
The Triune God, Supernatural Heaven, Souls, Hell, and Demons Do They Exist?
Teachings of Demons The Aeon of Horus, Reign of God-Men, and End of the Christian God
Revelation 2:7" ...the closing of a steel door – a solemn, cataclysmic slamming of a door."
Systemic Nihilism: End of the Human Race Eternal Damnation of Human Souls
Infernal Apocalyptic Atmosphere Over America Disintegration into nothing
Global and Ruling Class Criminal Elitists Their Ring of Power and Pact with the Spirit of Death and Hell
Blessed is the Man Who Does Not Listen to Falling Stars Who Follow After Damnable Heresies
Darwinism: An Abomination Aborting and Rotting the Church. The falling away and apostasy from the one true and personal Holy Triune Creator God has not ended
The Evil One and the Impenitent Who Receive His Mark“. And the LORD God formed man (and) breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” Genesis 2:7
The Fall of Mankind, the Religion of Evolution, and the Antichrist. "Pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18
Why Secular Liberals Actively Promote Evil. Mentally Retarded Liberals
Cultural Marxism. The Many Hidden Faces of Living Active Communism
The Devil, the Big Bang, Evolution, Extraterrestrials and the Genesis Problem
The Ascension To Power Of Misogyny. Hatred of Women
Gnostic Chiliastic Evolution: Satan's Alternative Plan of Salvation. The Great Reset
Why Proclaiming Jesus Christ the Word Became Flesh is Offensive. The Technocratic Utopian World Order
The Divine Androgyne, Pandemonium, and the Battle for Our Souls. Satan's Rising New World Order
America's Modern Pagan Oligarchy, Aztec Gods, and Human Sacrifice. Isaiah 57 Revisited
The Peace Symbol: Occult Sign Meaning Death Against Christians. Hatred of Jesus Christ and Christianity
Americas’ Spiritually Desolate, Parasitic, Ruling Class Nihilists. Satan and Powers and Principalities
Global Oligarchy, Forces of Darkness, and the Spirit of Antichrist. Forces Darkness Within Church and State
Darwinism: Idol of mind symbolizing hatred of Triune Creator God. And Logical End of America
Is the World a Computer Simulation in the Minds of Robotic Overlords? Magic Science, Transhumanists, Gnostic Physicists.
Your soul: Cost of admission to the Progressive Pagan City of Man. New Egypt, Babylon, Sodom and Gomorrah
Iron Curtain Over American Minds Progressive Marxisms’ Ideological Utopia
Satan’s New World Order Blueprint and Key Strategy. Christian Capitulation To the Serpent's Consensus Process
Chaos, Breakdown, Demoralization, Destruction: America's New Normal. How it came about and where we are going.
Demonic Darkness: America's Invisible Wave of Evil. Staring into the abyss
Cain, Marxism, Leftism and America's ruling class of 'superior' humans. The dragon they have in common
Modernist Christians in a Man-Centered Universe. Scientific Neutrality and Biblical Deconstruction
The Connection Between Baphomet and Why Researchers Are Creating Interspecies Embryos. 2 Corinthians 10:5
Isaiah 57 revisited: America's progressive pagan elites. Staring into the Abyss
Evolutionary Theism Implies That Christ is Wrong About Creation. "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" John 5:46-47
Utopianism. Progressive Utopian Cultural Marxism Poisoning Minds, Churches, Schools, Politics
Acts 17:18-19-modern pagan and pantheist antithesis of the Word of God Ecclesiates 1:9 "What has been is what will be.."
Trotsky's Permanent Revolution From Hell In America. The Soviet System in America
Why Transgenderism Is Being Forced Upon America and Our Children. The Divine Androgyne
The Evil Eye Of Envy: Why Being ‘White’ Is Offensive To Some People. No Vice Worse Than Envy
Absolute Nothingness and Non-Self: The Reigning Worldview of Global Power Elites and Western Ruling Classes
What is Evil? Man-made alternative realities
Satanism, Communism: What's The Difference? Look To The Roots Of Communism
Fox Is the Leading "Trans" Channel There are some rather peculiar goings-on at the Fox News Channel.
Trump and His Communist Enemies The Demonized Joe McCarthy Turned Out To Be Accurate In Everything He Claimed: Fox News Is Wrong About Him And About Much More
The Five Stooges on Capitol Hill They Think We Need Even More Doped No-Hopers In The American Intelligence Community
The Biden Doctrine of Demoralization and Defeat By Cliff Kincaid
A Republican Church Committee? Do Pro-American Republicans Even Know Who Frank Church Really Was?
A Top to Bottom Housecleaning of America When we clean our house, my wife has a slogan, “Top to bottom,” meaning you have to target the whole house. The same advice applies to nations.
China's Mass Murder Experiment Phase Two
Bury The Dead And Move On Fuggedaboutit!
9/11 Truth This is the real 9/11 Truth: Our “intelligence” agencies are infiltrated.
Moving Toward Gorbachev’s “World of Communism” It's called the Monster Plot.
The Errors of Russia, the Dupes of Putin, and Another Holocaust Can The Increasingly Faithless Free World Be Saved From Russia?
World War Quietly Conquering A Distracted and Blithely Unaware World. Could it actually be Satan's world war on despised humanity?
Stand With Ukraine Against Russia and China By Cliff Kincaid
Tucker Carlson Carlson Gets His Comeuppance. Tucker's View: It is not moral for us to intervene in support of any nation's (Ukraine's) democratic self-determination and against Soviet military expansion.
The Need for Secure Borders. Have we so easily forgotten what borders are for? Have we forgotten that evil exists in the world? Have we forgotten how to keep apart from this evil?
Can Ukraine Survive Putin and Biden? Can America? Can the Free World? Can Faith in God?
The Soviet Union: Back From The Dead The Return of the Evil Empire
Could an American Surrender be in the offing with Biden at the wheel? Is this not the perfect time for Communism to strike, with Commies now governing America, China and Russia? What would Biden do?
Abortion and Communism. If you ever wondered where all the popular abortion-contraception-sexuality-perversion nuttiness came from, look to Marx's Communist Manifesto.
The Secret Life of Martin Luther King, Jr. A life almost totally at odds with his reputation as a minister of the Gospel.
"We belong to the Church militant; and She is militant because on earth the powers of darkness are ever restless to encompass Her destruction. Not only in the far-off centuries of the early Church, but down through the ages and in this our day, the enemies of God and Christian civilization make bold to attack the Creator’s supreme dominion and sacrosanct human rights.”--Pope Pius XII
"It is not lawful to take the things of others to give to the poor. It is a sin worthy of punishment, not an act deserving a reward, to give away what belongs to others."--St. Francis of Assisi
Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.—Winston Churchill
The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.—Ayn Rand
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